some patrons need temple cards back.

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Carolyn Wheeler said: Ron, I’m sorry, but I do not understand what you mean by “we can print the card exactly as it was when it was originally printed...”. Do you mean the card with blank ordinance dates/temples? - the way it first looked before I ever took it to the temple? Or do you mean the final card showing all completed ordinances dates/temples? - after all ordinances have been done?

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Mary C Najar said: I like the idea of a completed temple list with the option to print a copy of the completed card if I so choose. I think that will help those who like to keep the completed cards. Thank you for responding to our concerns.

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Ron Tanner said: Sorry. I was not clear. The ordinances would be all showing as done, but the card will show the data that was used when the card was originally printed: name, birth, death, etc.

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Vicki Scott said: Most Utah County temples are going to this system. There are several articles out telling why. It is a trial system, but my understanding is that cards will be scanned twice before being discarded to avoid errors. Also, one of the reasons there are errors is the hurry to get the cards scanned and stamped and back to the patrons and this system would avoid that and improve accuracy. Also, if you want to check if ordinances were scanned simply write down the ID number and go into familysearch and check. You don't need the card to do so, only the number or even looking in your temple reservations file to see if the ordinance is gray.

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Carolyn Wheeler said: Then, yes, I think that would be great!!! Thank you!!

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Vicki Scott said: This is a good point. If cards are not returned, it is less likely that ordinances will be duplicated. We should all check all ordinances before we take a card to the temple in case it was a duplicate that has been merged and ordinances have all ready been completed or it is so old that someone else has reserved and completed the ordinances. We don't want to be doing ordinances more than once with so many backlogged. I personally have only been printing one ordinance at a time as many people help me do our family ordinances and some prefer one ordinance or another. This works fine and is easier to track in your reservation list, as only ordinances assigned to a person show as printed. We can make this work. I also liked the idea of printing a duplicate or writing down the number, then checking online to make sure it was recorded. If we called the temple right away about ordinances not recorded, they would still have the card.

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Brett said: All

Here is another extended idea/though on this matter:

Please create a complete ordinance format card "download or save as"

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

Brett

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Tom Huber said: Doesn't your system create a PDF when you print a card?

Mine does and from Ron's comments above, it appears that we will be able to print a completed card with all the ordinance information and the person's details as they existed at the time the person had their vicarious ordinances reserved.

When the feature becomes available, then that will likely serve the same purpose as the suggestion in your referenced link.

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: My wife has over 70 cards printed and reserved. She died on May 22nd. The church closed her account. If I take one of her reserved cards to the temple to do an ordinance like baptism and confirmation, and I do not get the card back, I can not do the rest of the work because I can not get into her closed account to reprint the card with the Baptism and Confirmation, so that I can take it to the next ordinance. I promised my wife, I would finish her work, now I can not do it. At least not in a Utah County temple. I will be taking her cards to one of the SLC temples where I can get the card back and continue to do the work. Did anyone think about this issue when the decision was made to first not give the cards back and second to close the account of a deceased patron?

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Nathan Twyman said: Probably not, but you might try explaining the situation to the recording office. I would bet they would be willing to accommodate your request to retrieve cards in this case.

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Tom Huber said: This was a decision made by the General Authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have been told that they did not make the decision "in a vacuum" and given their access to revelation on the matter, I feel confident that all situations were discussed.

Given the possibility that they missed this one case, I recommend talking with two people: your local temple presidency, and your local priesthood leadership.

It may be that your local temple presidency will copy the card for you, but I really don't know.

The other option is to open a case with support and ask that all of her reserved names be released or transferred to your account.

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Lynne VanWagenen said: Brother Smith, Please contact FamilySearch Support. They should be able to help you release the names from your wife's list. https://www.familysearch.org/ask/help

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Christopher R Schmink said: Excellent - thanks Lynne VanWagenen. Didn't know they could do that!

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W David Samuelsen said: Whoa! any cards already printed and not done, are still act-able. The barcodes are the keys linking the card to the individuals. Just do the work. I should know because there were few names I accidently unreserved but already have the cards and they turned out to be good anyway.

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Christopher R Schmink said: W David Samuelsen, your example involves cards that were reserved and later unreserved by a still-living person. The only question here was whether there ~might~ be a problem due to the submitter who created the cards now being deceased. Apparently Lynne VanWagenen is aware of how that can be resolved due to the word "released" being used in the response.

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: I think many of your are not aware that this year the Utah County Temples stopped giving the temple cards back to the patrons. THis only applies to Utah County Temples. One solution for me is to do all the work that my deceased wife has reserved in a temple outside of Utah COunty. That might be the easiest fix.

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gasmodels said: Any printed card is valid see this help center article. --- https://familysearch.org/ask/productS...
However you will note that you can verify if ordinances have been done before using so that you do not duplicate (earliest completed ordinance is the one that displays)

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: Yes I have been assured that the cards that I have printed that were reserved by my deceased wife will be released in two years, and the work will be done. That does not allow me to keep my promise to her, that I would do the work. This is personal commitment that I made to my sweet wife of 53 years. I want to try to keep that commitment.

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: I do not think my wife and I hoarded any names. We were in the temple every week for the past few years. I am retired and was a temple worker in TOnga when she and I served a mission there. Had she not gotten sick and died, we would have completed all of her cards in less than 6 months. I see the BIGGER picture, but also have a personal commitment to my sweet wife of 53 years. THis is one of the last commitments that I made to her that I can carry out at this time.

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: I also agree, Wally Smith. I have gotten some good ideas, that will make it possible for me to honor my promise to my wife.

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Wallace Ellis Smith said: The question is will the Uah Temples accept a copy of a card, say for initory work that has a handwritten date and name of the temple on it as opposed to one with a stamped date and temple name when you take that card to the Temple to do the endowment? I guess I can test that. I have a feeling they will want a card with a stamped date and temple name.

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Tom Huber said: Wallace,

Eventually all the temples will go to the new process. We don't have a schedule, but the decision was made at the General Authority level and not in a vacuum. With few exceptions (which may need to be worked out with the local temple presidency) the policy will remain. Any disagreement is not something that the Family History Department can deal with and as such, any concerns need to be taken up with your local Priesthood Leadership.

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Cândido Lourenço Silveira Ázera said: I have also suggested to family search the other day, when the ordinances are completed for a person, to include in the page of the ordinances an option for us to print or save to the computer the completed ordinances in a card format as the one we print at home and take the cards to the temple to do the work. Several times I had the same situation, where someone merged the person or done something bad in the record where the ordinances for an ancestors was gone. Family search wants proof of the ordinances that were done but i can't give them the cards with the completed ordinances because they are missing. So the alternative is to do the work again when the work was done already for that person. The program is to avoid precisely that "DUPLICATION" of the work. We've come along ways and it is getting better but this feature that i have suggested would eliminate exactly that "DUPLICATION in these situations.I hope that seriously take that in consideration.

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Tom Huber said: Ron Tanner (a Product Manager for FamilySearch) mentioned this about a month ago and that there is serious consideration being given to being able to print a card as it appeared when first reserved, but with all the completed ordinances. Look up a page or so from this comment and you'll see his reply and a comment clarification from him.

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Tom Huber said: By the way, the "proof" issue will essentially go away. This has been discussed at length and the process as it has been explained a number of times in different discussion threads is this:

1. There will be no rush to get the completed ordinance cards back to the patrons, which will go a long way to prevent cards from being missed.
2. All the cards will be (separately) audited which, from what I can determine, will include being scanned a second time.
3. The patron whose card it is will receive a message through Family Search that the ordinance has been completed. If no such message is received in a day or so, the patron needs to call the temple involved with the information so they can look through the cards, which will be retained by the temple for a period of time before being discarded (a month has been mentioned).
4. Temple staff will receive additional training with regard to this process.
5. The decision was made by the General Authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which included the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. And concerns about the process need to be addressed with your local priesthood leaders.
6. If there are special needs (and one has been brought up), this should be discussed with the temple president by the patron when the new process is already in place. We have been told that the needs will be accommodated in some way.

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Christopher R Schmink said: Tom Huber said, "6. If there are special needs (and one has been brought up), this should be discussed with the temple president by the patron when the new process is already in place. We have been told that the needs will be accommodated in some way."

Excellent answer! If the temple presidency is not available due to other duties within the temple, I believe the temple recorder could also be of significant help as well with special cases.

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Tom Huber said: The situation that came up was that the wife had died and that the husband had her cards, but because her account was locked, he could not print out the individual cards each time he went to the temple. One of the suggestions given was to talk with the temple staff (presidency or clerk(s)) and the other was to call support and talk with them to get the persons transferred from her locked account to his where he had ownership and could take care of her family for her.

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Cândido Lourenço Silveira Ázera said: Good. It might work the way Ron Tanner said. hopefully soon.

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W David Samuelsen said: Wallace Ellis Smith,

That is not accurate about temples not giving back cards.

I already called them earlier (suggest you read what I said and posted)

only 6 percent of patrons retrieve the cards promptly. Not 94 percent who left in files.

They will return the cards while you are there doing the ordinances. They are shutting down the file drawers because the patrons have NOT followed through to complete in timely manner.

Baptistry has separate scanners and you get them back while you are there.
Initiatories - they have separate scanners, you get them back while you are there or made advance arrangement for certain number of cards to be done.
Endowment - they are waiting for you at the table or desk at end of your session to pick them up. Any cards not picked up promptly will be shredded.
Sealings - they have separate scanners. Make arrangement to retrieve them BEFORE you do sealings.

Salt Lake Temple has no file system for some years. Still can get cards back while there.

Be sure to count the cards before going to temple so you know exact how many to get back.

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W David Samuelsen said: Review the "Latest Changes" and see if there were any merges done, take a closer look there. This is how I was able to recover the good ones away from bad ones, even to the point of total undoing the merges until all are separated. Be surprised to fin there are wrong relatives buried deep.