some patrons need temple cards back.

LegacyUser

Emmanuella Christianne A. Koncurat Overstreet said: I heard that you are not going to give back the cards after the ordinances are done. Why? I need those cards. I know that you post the work that is done on the message area but I like to double check the work, specially when I give a name to someone in my ward. I guess I am old fashioned but if there is still work to be done ( sealing to parents or to spouse) I like to have that in my hands. please let us have our cards back if we want them.
I have had occasions when the temple work was not recorded, when I called family search they wanted me to show that it was done. I save my cards and I can give the date and the temple that was used. If I do not get my cards back I have no proof.
Sister Overstreet

LegacyUser

Brett said: Sister OVERSTREET

Firstly, "Welcome" to this "FamilySearch" ( "GetStaisfaction" ) 'Feedback' Forum.

Secondly, "Official 'FamilySearch' Representatives", do monitor; and, sometimes, participate in, this Forum.

Thirdly, I am just another User/Patron, just like yourself (and, happen to be a Member of the Church).

Many Users/Patrons who regularly participate in this Forum who have a great deal of knowledge and experience with "FamilySearch", like to assist/help other Users/Patrons like yourself.

Finally, from whom; and, when, did you hear that the "Temples" are not going to be giving back the "Temple" Cards after the "Ordinances" have been "Completed"?

This is news to me; and, perhaps, many!

Exactly as you implied in your post, those "Temple" Cards that are "Completed" that we, get back; and, retain, are REQUIRED, as "Prima Facie" Evidence to support a Case that the "Temple" Work was, in fact, "Completed"; but, NOT recorded in the "Temple" database; and/or, "Family Tree".

The situation were the "Temple" Work was, in fact, "Completed"; but, NOT recorded in the "Temple" database; and/or, "Family Tree", happens quite frequently - I have had to help many Members throughout the World, "Scan" the "Temple" Cards that they hold (ie. retain) with the "Ordinances" that have been "Completed"; and, submit those "Scanned" cards through a 'Support' Case, to get the "Temple" Work that was "Completed" recorded.

If what you suggest is the case; then, this is of a critical concern!

Lets hope that an "Official 'FamilySearch' Representative" WILL take the time to join in on this post of yours; and, 'shed some light' on this concerning matter.

Brett

LegacyUser

Emmanuella Christianne A. Koncurat Overstreet said: thank you for your response. I heard it just yesterday from a friend who helps me with doing ordinances for my male cards. He told me that after the 21 of May they will not be given back at the Provo Temple where he attends. But I heard that is already the case at an other Temple in Utah. But that it is only a trial at that temple. I cannot remember the name at this time. It is the 4 corner Temple.
This is a critical concern for me.

Sister Overstreet

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: Well like my previous post suggested it could come. 2 Temples are in pilot phase.

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: Then what proof will we be given that the names have been completed and recorded?

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: You will get a message on FS that it was completed. The temples that have participated have had a temple system update to increase reliability as well has some procedural changes.

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: That makes me nervous. The email happens only when they scan the card. What if they don’t scan the card? (I’ve had that happen.). There where is my proof that the ordinance(s) we’re done?

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: And what about locating ordinances that get lost in FSFT? I have a number that were lost, and the only reason Support could find them was because I had the cards. How will they find ordinances that get lost without the cards?

LegacyUser

Emmanuella Christianne A. Koncurat Overstreet said: I have had to redo ordinances when I did not have the proof that it was done.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: I know in the past this has happened and why systems and procedures were updated. You should get a notice within a few days and from what I seen many have gotten it before they got home from the temple. If you don't see it in a few days you can contact the temple. They will keep the cards for a limited time so they can scan it back in if needed.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: This is also why pilots are done to make sure all processes work under any unusual circumstances.

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: I have been getting the notices pretty quickly, and you are right, some of them arrive before I even get home, but if the Temple keeps the cards for a period of time then why can’t they give them back to us? What is the reasoning for not returning the cards?

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: And if they keep the cards, does that mean that I would have to print the card five times for each person (assuming that I only do one ordinance each time I go?)

LegacyUser

Christine said: I like keeping the cards because I often go back through old cards and recheck those families. I often will find a spouse and children of someone I did ordinances on years ago. Sometimes I find a sibling I didn't when I researched them before. I am puzzled why this would be considered a benefit.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: Keep in mind because this was a Temple process it was reviewed and approved by the 1st Presidency .
Yes you would need to print again if you do each ordnance separately.
A couple of suggestions that I have seen from patrons that may be beneficial.
1. Some patrons take a digital image, phone, computer etc before they enter the temple so they have a copy of the card.
2. I heard one patron prints the cards twice and when they come home they hand write the date they did the work as a reference just in case.

I saw another post asking for opt out. There is no opt out option.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: I can see one advantage that the temple workers wouldn't be rushed to to get all of the cards recorded immediately after a session so that the owners of the cards could get them back before leaving.

However, we do have cases where cards sometimes don't get recorded (possibly due to the rush?). In these cases, without the original card and the completed date, it's hard to go back and have the error corrected.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: Jeff are you are right on.
Many of the errors were caused by the human factor of rushing to get the cards to the office so patrons could get them.
Temples don't want to be card repositories and have to manage that. My temple has a massive desk full of cards that go back years in many cases.
Finally if you get outside of US and specifically outside Utah and Idaho many new smaller temples don't have the space, temple workers and organization to manage cards. Many have very limited hours as well.

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: Those are two good suggestions. Think I will print them twice and watch for the email notification. :-)

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: Any idea how long before this goes out to all Temples?

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: When I print out cards, I typically "print" them to a .PDF file and then print out the .PDF file to paper afterwards. I always have a soft copy that I can annotate if I want

LegacyUser

Richard M. Smith said: I REALLY hope this is just a rumor! My "completed" cards help me keep track of the work, as a back-up to my "reserved" FS account. PLEASE let us keep the cards. For those who don't want them, how about an "opt out" feature in our settings, preserving the cards for those of us who WANT them?

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: I suspect this practice applies to those cards for which all ordinances are completed or otherwise hashed out. I doubt seriously that it will apply to those cards where ordinances have yet to be completed.

But I don't know. I do know that this gets back to checking to make sure the ordinances are marked after returning home. Practice keeping a copy of the cards (print them twice) so you can mark the duplicate with the date you went to the temple.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: Carolyn,

I think that the "reason for not returning the cards" is in part due to the extra handling and result of errors due to the rush in getting the cards recorded and ready for the patron before they leave the temple. This way they can record the cards at a less stressed (and potentially more accurate) rate. However, when they finish recording them, it might be hours after the patron left the temple. Mailing the cards to the owners would just add cost.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves in efficiency.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: No opt out will be available. Pilots being pilots it depends on how they go as to when other temples will get it. This will be rolled out slowly as Priesthood is notified, those that have LDS accounts are notified. You will get an email and your Priesthood will also notify you from the pulpit and usually a few weeks lag before it cuts in.

LegacyUser

Phil Jeffrey said: This applies to all cards that you take to the temple. Once an ordnance is done the temple will keep the card for a very short limited time.

LegacyUser

gasmodels said: It is my understanding in the temple districts where it is being tested. Patrons are being asked to only print the ordinances they plan on doing that day. This is a significant change. Many print all of the ordinances and then keep the card or pass it to other family members to complete certain ordinances and then get the card back. Others print all ordinances and then recover the card and keep it for the next trip. The system being tested would possibly require several cards be printed for an individual to complete all the ordinances if they are going to be done on different days or in different temples. It will take some significant re-arrangement in thinking if the the system is implemented in all temples.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: That (print only the ordinances I plan on doing) makes sense. That way, I don't have to get the card back.

It won't change much for my practices, since I don't print a card for the person until the day I go to the temple. All I have to do is to print just the ordinance(s) I plan to do for that person for that trip.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: You know, this is really excellent! Whether you like the direction this pilot is going or not, it has been great to have a member of FS staff participating here in and providing rumor control :-) All topics should be like this.

Thank you Phil Jeffrey!

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: It might also discourage a bit of the reservation hoarding that sometimes occurs. It also reduces the likely hood of people with old cards who's PID hasn't been checked for a while. If a name gets merged away, it is less likely that someone will continue doing other ordinances for someone who's records have been altered. I can see where this has the potential of improving an assortment of things.

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: Yes, I highly agree!! Thank you, Phil!! :-)

LegacyUser

Carolyn Wheeler said: That’s an excellent thought! If they keep the card after each ordinance then the chance of duplication diminishes. Bravo!! (But I will still miss my cards. Sigh...)