Search>Cemeteries
I tried it out this evening and some people are left out. When I clicked on Las Vegas, NM. Masonic Cemetery, my great grandmother was not in the main list. Is the information generated from FindaGrave. Her FG # is 21833895 and her PID # is KF2W-Y4F
Answers
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Hello Rue, I checked and the FS FindaGrave Index Source was not attached. I found it and attached it. It may take the system a bit for it to show up but I'll bet it shows up tomorrow. Hope that helps. ~ T
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Tiffany Farnsworth Nash
Her FindaGrave was added several years ago.
So are where exactly are you adding the index?
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She still isn't showing up so my guess is that it will take a few days for the index to be updated.
Yes, you are correct. She was added to FindaGrave several years ago. As you probably know, that is a separate web site than FamilySearch. What happens is that every so often FamilySearch does a scan of FindaGrave and creates an index (https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2221801). This index allows you to attach Sources to people. That is how the system knows who is in the cemeteries. If you look on her Sources page you will find the FindaGrave Source I attached. I hope this makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll try again.
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Hi Tiffany
It finally updated. But a new mystery! Still one more great great grandmother missing from same cemetery. Her FindaGrave source is attached but she is not showing up with her husband Joseph Alexander LaRue and son Thomas William LaRue alphabetically.
KF8G-FKQ If I put her name in the search box Jeanie Anderson LaRue her name comes up but I don't know where she is located in the list.
Any ideas?? Also the "Only Show My Relatives" isn't working yet.
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Ok, so I visited Jeanie Anderson LaRue KF8G-FKQ. Yes, her FindaGrave Source was attached just as you said - that couldn't be the problem. However, when I clicked on
her Burial Event it was not standardized so I standardized it. Then I checked Cemetery Search to see if she showed up correctly and she did!
So, now I need another situation to test this. Is it that the Cemetery name must be entered in the Burial Event and standardized, or does it require that and the FindaGrave Source be attached as well.
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In that screenshot, the thing in the red box is standardized. "Masonic Cemetery, Las Vegas, New Mexico" is the display value, and it has been connected to the background database value shown in the box below: "Masonic Cemetery, San Miguel, New Mexico, United States". That connection to a database value is what FamilySearch refers to as "standardization".
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Hi Tiffany
I suspect that it must be the standardization is the link to the database. Because the source has been attached since 2021. Or maybe it has to be a combo of both!!
Now I will go back and check all my burial info!!
Thanks for your help!
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You wrote:
In that screenshot, the thing in the red box is standardized. "Masonic Cemetery, Las Vegas, New Mexico" is the display value, and it has been connected to the background database value shown in the box below: "Masonic Cemetery, San Miguel, New Mexico, United States". That connection to a database value is what FamilySearch refers to as "standardization".
Yes, it has been 'soft' standardized but not 'hard' standardized. Since it didn't show up under Cemetery Search until it was 'hard' standardized, I theorize that it needs to be 'hard' standardized in order to do so. We are testing out different scenarios to sort this out.
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I looked at some more family members being just curious! My mom's cemetery is listed twice for the area under two different names. I did go into Place names and added a correction with a note that they need to be combined!
FindaGrave has all the names.
The reason for the 2 names is because the original name 1891 was "Soldiers and Sailors Home" for Civil War vets which has now morphed into the "Colorado State Veterans Center". There is only one cemetery!
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Thanks for reporting it. It happens. Do you have anyone else not showing up in Cemetery Search that we can test some things out on?
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Thanks Tiffany
I had a few minutes - here is one. My great grandparents KHRL-837 & KFBM-4PB are buried in a cemetery in Cook, County, Illinois. So I did a search for the cemetery - Graceland Cemetery - couldn't find it. I did notice when I was putting Cook County in the search box it had a separate search for Chicago, Cook, Illinois so I tried that, too. Graceland is not listed under either place search. I checked in FindaGrave to see if it has another name but it only shows Graceland. The address in FindaGrave is Chicago. It has about 97,000 memorials. I did make sure that their burial info was standardized!!
Also the one great grandmother KF2W-Y4F you helped with at the beginning is still not showing up in the Masonic Cemetery in Las Vegas, NM. I tried to use the add Person under "only show my relatives" but that didn't work because she still isn't in the list. I did check Maiden and married names.
A comment - when you click on Only show my relatives I noticed that it does not bring up 2nd wives (assuming since they are not related directly??)
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Thanks for poking around again.
So, if you just standardized their burial, then you may need to wait a day or so for the indexing to catch up. It should work like the other one. This would be further proof that it needs to be 'hard' standardized in order to index correctly.
So, what I need to test now is one that you find, where it isn't in the cemetery and isn't 'hard' standardized. Don't standardize it please - I need to take a look at it in order to see what is going on.
I will have to look at the 'only show my relatives' tomorrow...
As for your g-grand KF2W-Y4F. I think I was able to bring her up:
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The family members in Cook County their burials were added along time ago not recently.
It would good to have clarification on the hard vs soft to see which the data base is pulling from.
I will have to check my ggmother again!!
Any ideas on the missing cemetery?
I will look a little bit more!
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Hi Rue, I have been finding some other people to test with. Shall check back in, in a day or so... ~ T
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I don't know if this will help you "reverse engineer" how Cemetery Search works, but here's one that does work but seems to have little connection to the burial event on the profile.
When I do a Search / Cemeteries for "Crewe Cemetery and Crematorium", then KG8H-GV9 Dr. James Atkinson J.P. is near the top of the list.
His profile has a Burial Event at "Crewe, Cheshire East Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England" - no burial date, that's the display value, and the standardised value is empty. (Not a word in there about Cemetery)
He has a FindAGrave source attached that looks like this:
Again, the Event Place reads "Crewe, Cheshire East Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England" (as I'd expect) but there is also a "Cemetery" data item reading "Crewe Cemetery & Crematorium" (which matches his FindAGrave entry https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/229421162/james-atkinson )
That text string for the "Cemetery" data item appears to be the only thing that links it to the Search / Cemeteries entry for "Crewe Cemetery and Crematorium". And, as I say, the Burial Event Place has no standardised value now. (I emphasise "now" because I suspect it would have had one when it was added in August 2022 and, like many values, it's been lost at some point.)
Don't know if this helps or confuses...
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From the discussion the data list is a work in progress in its use of which ever standardization!!
For the missing cemetery (that is the standardized places)what can be done? Maybe the engineers could make a way to add or a request button??
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I found the following article which is somewhat helpful but doesn't explain how the relative of @Adrian Bruce1
KG8H-GV9 is found in the correct cemetery even though the Cemetery Event only lists the place, not the cemetery name, but does have the FindaGrave record attached. Hmm...
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-use-the-cemeteries-search-tool
It would be very helpful if we had a tech or someone-in-the-know that could tell us exactly what is required to get someone to show up in Cemeteries Search.
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So, as for your great grandparents KHRL-837 & KFBM-4PB. He has a FG record attached and standardized. i have no idea why he isn't showing up in the Cemetery Search. She didn't have a FG atttached but did have a full standardized cemetery name. I attached her FG record so let's give it a day or two to show up like we did before.
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(I'm surprised this forum doesn't censor "xxx". It bleeps out all sorts of other things. [The preferred abbreviation is FG, by the way.])
You can suggest additions to the Places database using the Places tool (https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/). I have no idea how the cemeteries search thingy relates to that.
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Julia
Sorry suggesting a place or in this case a cemetery doesn't work in this situation because it already exists.
Where it (the cemetery) doesn't exist is in the cemeteries list under Search. That's what we are trying to figure out.
Also what are the true search index parameters for the list of individuals under each cemetery. Because the examples I have provided Tiffany it doesn't appear to be consistent.
I am not complaining or upset. I am trying to help get this new cemetery search functioning the best it can. My tree has a wide variety of cemetery choices across the US and Canada.
I have been using FamilySearch Tree since it was a beta program. I am very, very familiar with it. I teach FamilySearch classes at both beginner and advanced levels.
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Tiffany
Jeanie already appears!!
Here is another example of the inconsistency of the index. I had this written out last night but forgot to save the draft. 😕
Another mystery!! If you click on Green-Wood Cemetery, Brooklyn, NY on the Cemeteries main page this list must have come directly from Green-Wood. I clicked on 'Only Show my Relatives" my direct line comes up with several additional persons I was not aware of buried there. I checked several of these and most do not have any burial info or FindaGrave in sources!! Examples: K8HN-NJZ, G75Y-H44, KNZ4-6MS
The last PID has a hint to attach FindaGrave but everything else is blank and she died in Virginia!
The same situation exists for Greenwood Cemetery, Saint John, New Brunswick. KP4G-G7K (his FindaGrave is a hint) but no burial info and no source??
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Tiffany
Like I said I didn't save my comment from last night! Just remembered another cemetery anomaly!
This is another cemetery that does not exist in the list under the Cemeteries search.
It does exist in Place names!!
It is Old Tennent Churchyard, Tennent, Monmouth, New Jersey. This is where all of my Rue/LaRue/Conover/Perrine families have been buried for a couple of hundred years. MNDL-6SZ, 243B-CK4, most of their children are buried there as well. Burial place added in 2012 and I added the source in 2016 and 2018. I did hard standardize Hannah's parents last night.
The name does not have the word cemetery????
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Mod note: Find a Grave abbreviations has been changed to FG. For those wanting to tag another person, type the @ symbol and then start typing the name. A list should appear and you can choose the name you want.
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At risk of confusing matters still further, I'd just like to fly a kite... ("Speculate" if you prefer)
I just noticed a "feature" of Search / Cemeteries. When you are on the page for a Cemetery, at the start of the list of names already in there, there is an option to "Add Person".
I just tried it by attempting to add my Grandpa ( L85X-QLY ) to "Crewe Cemetery and Crematorium". It worked, and he appeared in the list immediately. There is no sign of any alteration to the data on his profile. (Please note, this is all correct data, I didn't make anything up!)
So if there is one method of updating that Search / Cemeteries list that doesn't involve the FS Profile (and clearly that's what "Add Person" is) could there have been others - such as a background run going through the FindAGrave collection or FindAGrave hints? (Grandpa isn't in FindAGrave). That could explain some appearances of profiles that are in FindAGrave but don't have anything on their profiles...
This makes me think of all the data that's been concocted in the past for various US Censuses - is Search / Cemeteries a further attempt to be "helpful"?
As I said, this is pure speculation on my part - but why else have an independent method of creating the data?
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Re: Jeanie already appears!! [I've lost my trail of people somehow. Who is Jeanie please? PID?
Re: Green-Wood Cemetery, Brooklyn, NY. [I cannot find this cemetery using Cemetery Search. Am I typing something wrong?]
FYI, please give a name with PIDs cuz I can't see your 'Only Show Relatives'.
This situation is very disconcerting. Are they matching from names/dates? Now I really want/need to know! Crazy.
My apologies for using an incorrect abbreviation for FindaGrave. I didn't have a clue that there was a standard abbreviation. If anyone knows where this is posted please share so that I have avoid future faux pas.
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Here is Old Tennent Churchyard!
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That is very interesting and a bit disconcerting too!
I'm going to check that out too.
Did you happen to check FindaGrave to see if it added it there perchance?
I found the Add button in Cemeteries Search. I don't have anyone to add right now so I'll ask a couple of questions. When you entered Grandpa ( L85X-QLY) did you enter via his name or PID? I am guessing that you used PID which means he is already in the FS system. Now, if he weren't in the FS system and you entered a name, would it search for duplicates of people already in the system? I certainly hope so, otherwise we could end up with loads of duplicates to merge.
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This is a great new feature (found under Search>Cemetery). Several of us have been trying to figure out a bit more about how it works.
We assume that the database is connected to and matching with FindaGrave, but perhaps that is incorrect.
Some people in FS have a:
- Burial Event with place-only entered, but are somehow listed under the correct cemetery even though a FindaGrave Source is not attached.
- Burial Event with a Cemetery entered but they cannot be found in the appropriate cemetery.
- FindaGrave Source attached and a standardized-cemetery-place-name but cannot be found in the correct cemetery.
The big question is: What do we specifically need to do in order to make sure that our people show up in the correct cemetery please?
Thank you.
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FYI: I just posted a General Question hoping to get some more info.
This is a great new feature (found under Search>Cemetery). Several of us have been trying to figure out a bit more about how it works.
We assume that the database is connected to and matching with FindaGrave, but perhaps that is incorrect.
Some people in FS have a:
- Burial Event with place-only entered, but are somehow listed under the correct cemetery even though a FindaGrave Source is not attached.
- Burial Event with a Cemetery entered but they cannot be found in the appropriate cemetery.
- FindaGrave Source attached and a standardized-cemetery-place-name but cannot be found in the correct cemetery.
The big question is: What do we specifically need to do in order to make sure that our people show up in the correct cemetery please?
Thank you.
What if... it isn't matching to FindaGrave but to BillionGraves instead?
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@Tiffany Farnsworth Nash asked
Did you happen to check FindaGrave to see if it added it there perchance?
I just checked and no, there's still nothing there for him in FindAGrave.
I found the Add button in Cemeteries Search. I don't have anyone to add right now so I'll ask a couple of questions. When you entered Grandpa ( L85X-QLY) did you enter via his name or PID? I am guessing that you used PID which means he is already in the FS system.
No - I added him using his name, birth-year and death-year - probably because it seemed a more generic test. It offered me (I think) two possible profiles, one of which was his, dating from 2013 when I added him. Today I got pretty much the usual dialogue for adding (or picking up) an FS FamilyTree profile, I think. His profile has included a Burial event since 2014. However, the burial place has a display value of "Municipal Cemetery, Crewe, Cheshire, England" and is standardised to "Crewe, Cheshire, England, United Kingdom" because cemetery placenames weren't a thing back in 2014. So it wasn't set to "Crewe Cemetery and Crematorium" and it's still not set to it as nothing has changed on the profile, so far as I can see.
Now, if he weren't in the FS system and you entered a name, would it search for duplicates of people already in the system? I certainly hope so, otherwise we could end up with loads of duplicates to merge.
Sensible question. Based on what I saw, it searches to see if that person is already in the system and allows me to choose that one - so no generation of needless duplicates.
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