New Viewer Issue, Records Disappear
Answers
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I think I have edited records and been able to view them immediately after my edit. I just did this yesterday with a few other records as I recall. Then when I did this to a family in the 1860 US census I got locked out of each of their records. I supposed that it got stuck in processing, but now that it is a day later I thought I better report it on here so support can look into it for me.
I changed a surname from Boter to Bothe. It is hard to read on the image, but you can see how it probably was intended to say Bothe. Also, it was a family who are cousins of mine and their surname is known to be Bothe and is spelled in other sources of the period as Bothe. The issue in question is not whether I was justified in making a correction, but rather why I got locked out. I just wanted to give some context because I suspect those who read this will be curious why I changed it anyway.
I never closed the tab where I did the edits, so here is a screenshot showing which record I mean:
If I search for the record under Boter or Bothe in the search now the record no longer shows up for me in search results at all.
If I use the link to go straight to the record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M69K-848 (this one is for Michael Bothe) I get the screenshot below.
I suspect that when FamilySearch opens on Monday they will find something got stuck and fix it, but I wanted to report this to be sure it is caught. It is inconvenient that I could not finish my work by attaching the source to the FamilySearch Family Tree.
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I believe that the problem of indexed data disappearing after the user has corrected it and logged in again is general and systemic. I've had this problem with absolutely every source I've fixed, about 150 times. The issue of the feedback button is in this context actually not that important.
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I'm afraid that for months now no one has been able or willing to solve the problem of disappearing indexed data after fixing it. Under these circumstances, it makes no sense to fix errors in the indexed data, even though there are often serious errors! It's a huge damage!
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There are many census pages where the households are not grouped. After putting households into groups and removing the Principal designation from all but the Head, I sometimes encounter an issue where the entire household completely disappears from the index--or sometimes the entire page of names disappears from the index. If I click Attach To Tree, I get the Something Went Wrong--Source Not Found error page. This seems to be a permanent loss of indexing/source information, even though I never hit the Delete button.
Based on some testing I just did, it seems like it is the process of turning off the Principal designation that is most at fault. The editing often works, but, when it doesn't, it seems catastrophic! I feel like I am inadvertently destroying the indexing of entire pages of Censuses, even though I am only editing one household and have never hit the Delete button. And when I look at the Change History for the page, there are no Deleted Persons--they are just gone!
Here is one example: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BSC-9XXV?view=index&action=view
At the top of the above page of the 1860 Census for Mecan, WI are two households of Urban's: August with his wife and one child, and John with his wife and four children. All of them were listed as Principals with no relationships, etc. After correcting the August Urban family, they completely disappeared from the indexed data. I then did an SOS screen-sharing session with FamilySearch support and made the same corrections to the John Urban family--and they went poof, too. Now, when I check that page--ALL of the indexed data for everybody on the entire page has mysteriously disappeared.
Here is another example: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHK-9QHW-TH5B?view=index&action=view
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There is a known issue when edits are made, using the new tool, that causes records to disappear. It's probably temporary, and I know it's been reported and escalated to the engineers.
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I have read posts from a few months ago that describe similar problems, so this seems to be an ongoing issue. Given the extremely destructive nature of the unexpected deletion of sections or entire pages of Censuses after a few simple edits to one or two individuals, I think the whole editing system needs to be shut down until they fix this.
When I first started trying to use the editor and things were not working or people were disappearing, I assumed I was just doing something wrong. Now, I realize that it is a very bad bug, and I will stop trying to repair problems. However, I have no idea how many Census pages I totally screwed up with my attempted repairs before now, and I am sure there are many other users out there who may be doing the same thing.
Will the lost indexing be restored automatically for all records across the entire collection, or will the ones that got screwed up remain screwed up?
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Quoth @SteveLinke:
"I think the whole editing system needs to be shut down until they fix this."
I agree wholeheartedly. As I've commented on the various threads about it, this bug should have been a deal-breaker the minute it was first reported: the editing tool should have been withdrawn or turned off until this problem was fully fixed.
Perhaps if enough of us use the Feedback tab to beg them to do what they should have done months ago, the right person will finally hear us?
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The Image is: Indiana, Blackford, Harrison, Montpelier, 1143/1435, Powell family is missing from the Indexed list on the right.
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Thanks Maile
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Maile mistyped: this error occurs when an index entry is edited, not when a record is indexed.
Are we absolutely certain that this error has been reported to the right people? I ask because the new editor is still available, and it really, really should not be, unless this error has been definitely eliminated. Based on the continuing reports, it hasn't been, so I don't understand why the fatally flawed tool is still available.
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This is a terrible situation, but I'm glad it's happened to other people, not just me. I have 4 examples (it happened more than that before I started keeping track) They are for 3 U.S. census years, 3 types of edits: surname, given name, residence in year 1949 (from 1950 census). In each case the entire household, including boarders, dropped off the index and the census can no longer be found in a search for any of the individuals.
I first reported one of these via feedback on January 13th and reported all of them on January 21st. I haven't heard a thing since.
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These are my 4 examples:
1) 1910 census
Zanesville, Montgomery, IL
Head of household: Albert R. Martin
My action: The records for this household were already tagged in FT except the eldest (illegible) son who I determined was Aaron. I added him to the family in FT ( ID GPMH-HLG ), tagged this source, then, on the census image screen, corrected the given name in the index.
Result: All the individuals in the household disappeared from the index on the image screen and this census can’t be located in a search for any of them. Aaron’s corrected name appears on the records for this census in the FT sources for all of the household members.
Image URL: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRND-5R6?view=index&action=view
2) 1910 census
Rhinelander, Oneida, WI
Head of household: (indexed) Frank MILER (should be GILES )
My action: I first tagged the record in FT ( ID KF54-77V ) then, on the census image screen, edited Frank’s surname.
Result: All the individuals in the household, including the boarder, disappeared from the index on the image screen and this census can’t be located in a search for any of them. Frank’s corrected name appears on the records in the FT sources for all of the household members. I can’t edit Frank’s wife and children,
Image URL: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YYY-9P1J?view=index&action=view
3) 1950 census
El Paso, Colorado
Head of household: Andrew Gwartney
My actions: On the census image screen, I corrected the 1949 residence (which is found in the bottom section of the census image) for Frances L. Olson, Andrew's mother-in-law,
Result: All the individuals in the household disappeared from the index on the image screen and this census can’t be located in a search for any of them. Also, there are other households on this image that don’t appear in the index.
4) 1930 census
Wild Horse Precinct 6, Cheyenne, Colorado
Head of household: Andrew Gwartney
My action: I didn’t tag this in FT. I corrected the surname for Andrew (previously something like Geuvastney)
Result: All the individuals in the household disappeared from the index on the image screen and this census can’t be located in a search for any of them.
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Thanks for catching my error @Julia Szent-Györgyi.
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I've had the same thing happen numerous times over the past 5 or 6 months.
And it seems random when it happens.
I corrected a mis-indexed entry 2 or 3 days ago and it disappeared; this happens often enough that my cousin and I have discussed this issue several times because a source that used to be linked to the citation is gone! not just one image, but the entire source (as in... the entire census) is missing. It's discouraging to say the least.
Today I corrected a mis-indexed record and it still seems to be working fine.
Cross your fingers, hopefully they will identify and squash the "bug" soon.
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I've had also the same thing happen numerous times over the past 2 or 3 months.
For example I edited some names in first 2 batches (Volf Marie Josefa and Lexa Josef) and after that both batches completely dismissed from index:
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to Maile L mod
This is a known bug that can happen when a record is indexed. The best thing for situations like this is to report the bug using the feedback tab on the page with the missing index. Leave incredibly detailed remarks with the url, collection name, film number, image number, etc. so that the team can find the error easily to fix it.
I mean that is problem of all cases of fixing indexed records, not only some of them! The problem is systematic, fixing only reported cases (by feedback tab) is not the solution.
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I found the Wells family in the 1950 US census on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHK-9QHW-Q9YG-3?view=index&action=view with a surname of Weddle, which is the surname of the immediately preceding family. I used the editor to correct the surname of the Wells family members—didn't touch the Weddles. The result was that all indexed information for both families was deleted (waited a few days to make sure)! If the NEW button was working, I could fix this. The NEW button worked many months ago, then it broke. There's been discussions on this forum but no explanation, estimate, or other response about the problem. Considering the destructive behavior of the editor problems, perhaps it should be disabled for the 1950 census until a fix is in place.
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It's not just the 1950 census where the new editor causes problems, John.
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Hi all. Please see this comment made by a Community Manager about reporting issues.
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I corrected the principal's name from Gavner->Tavner. Afterwards, you are unable to view the record at all. This is the second record this has happened with.
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Yup, been reporting this since midsummer at least, and have stopped correcting indexes because of it.
Here are a few of the threads on this topic:
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/540187#Comment_540187
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/535367#Comment_535367
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/540941#Comment_540941
(There are further links to other threads in some of the comments.)
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I noticed that after I correct a typo in personal detals of a subject - either the document becomes unaccessible or I can only correct one person in a relationship (1 parent, 1 child etc) and afterwards that data dissapears from the source document and only unedited data remains on the page (other families)
Does it make sense? Is it just me?
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What is the problem with FamilySearch and the 1950 census? Sometimes when clicking on a record hint, FS says the record has been removed and other times it says not available. However, when it says the record is removed, it is always available on Ancestry.
When it is available, accuracy is sorely lacking as it often shows everyone on the census page as part of the same family, showing unfinished attachments even when the others are clearly delineated in separate dwellings or addresses.
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I am posting this in hopes a FamilySearch team member involved in Indexing will see it. I have sent a detailed explanation to [nasupport@familysearch.org] only to have them push back and advise me it needs to be sent to the proper department; only, they cannot provide me with that department name and will not forward the original email to that department themselves. It has been quite a frustrating experience, to say the least. So, below is the information from my original email to support, which has all the specifics of the issue with the record.
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"I was working on correcting an entry on the above census yesterday (01 Feb) when it unexpectedly closed, and seemed to no longer be available. I can pull up the census on Ancestry, find another name on the same page, search for it, find it, try to open the census, but it says the record has been removed. Thus, there is some sort of corruption to the index, or the record flagged as removed, that has not self-corrected overnight.
Thank you for looking into it and sorry for the inconvenience.
Some information on the record page is below:
Message on FamilySearch.
"This Record has been removed. Unfortunately, the record that you requested is no longer available. If you arrived here from a bookmark, please delete your bookmark."
Header as Seen on Ancestry
Citation info from Ancestry.
Source Citation
Year: 1930; Census Place: District 14, Gibson, Tennessee; Page: 3A; Enumeration District: 0029; FHL microfilm: 2341982; Description: District: 0029; Description: CIVIL DISTRICT 14 EXCLUDING BRADFORD TOWN; Source Information: Ancestry.com. 1930 United States Federal Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2002.; Original data: United States of America, Bureau of the Census. Fifteenth Census of the United States, 1930. Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1930. T626, 2,667 rolls.
Another example of a different person ( I was not editing) on same page, that also will not pull up.
Thank you in advance for any assistance and correction you can make to the indexing of this record.
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NA Support Response: We are having problems with the corrections of some of the census. We ask that on one of the census you use the feedback button the the left hand side towards the middle of the page. The feedback button goes directly to the department that handles this problem.
If you have other questions, please reply to this email, or call FamilySearch Support at 1-866-406-1830. Please use the link here to view our hours of operation: https://www.familysearch.org/en/fieldops/united-states-and-canada-contact-us
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My response: Thank you. Your answer is not as adequate as I had hoped it would be, and the suggestion not really possible. My explanation was not likely very clear. The census itself is no longer accessible via your website. So, if you would, please forward the original problem report to the proper department, as I cannot via your suggested method, the feedback button. Again, the census is not accessible. Thank you much.
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NA Support Response: Sorry that my email was not clear enough. You can open the 1930 census and on any page in that census, you can use the feedback button and report the problem to that department. You do not need to be on the page where the problem is because we understand you can not get to the page. Here is a random URL with Smith and the first name on this page you can use the feedback button and give them all the information.
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My response: Sorry, but once again, that option is not available to me, possibly because we have different levels of access to the system. When I use the link you provided (or any other feasible means to get there), I receive an error message if I click on the Feedback button, the same message as any other activity within the same record. The error message says, "An error has prevented the requested action. Please visit the FamilySearch Community for help or to report an issue." See snapshot below. I will appeal to you for your help in forwarding the original email to the correct department. I simply don't understand why you cannot do so and continue to press for me to do it. That makes no sense to me. Sorry to be so blunt, but it just seems like it would be simple for you to do so. I will at least post this on the Community Center under Indexing in hopes that someone involved in that department will see it.
-End
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You have encountered a known issue that occurs when a user edits an index using the New Image Viewer/Editor tool, and the record disappears.
You will find quite a few threads covering the issue. The new Image Viewer/Editor tool is badly flawed.
Here's one thread on the subject. And that there is a link to another similar thread in that thread.https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/156294/why-did-a-family-disappear-from-the-list-of-indexed-people-after-an-edit
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Thank you. It looks like this is becoming a common problem, with no feedback from the developers. So, we'll leave it as is and know that in the months to come they may fix it.
I would agree with some that it needs to be rolled back or removed until fixed. Reindexing all the errors may not be possible.
For now, I will not be editing any records that use the new tool.
It is quite disappointing that the level of support from the NA Support team is so inadequate.
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Yes, the lack of feedback is very annoying.
This problem (editing data on an indexed record and having the indexed entry "disaappear") continues to be a problem. I successfully managed to edit an index recently (within the last few days), but only a few days ago, we also had a patron who made an edit and subsequently "lost" the record entirely. It seems to be a gamble...
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Yes, the lack of communication has been exasperating. I ranted a bit in this thread a few days ago.
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I've had multiple recent instances of clicking on an attached source or a record hint, only to be told the record has been removed "Unfortunately, the record that you requested is no longer available. If you arrived here from a bookmark, please delete your bookmark."
Records include 1950 census hints, plus Ohio and Virginia marriage records that were already attached to a person's record. For the census, I just go to Ancestry and see the record, then use record seek to attach it. The state or county records take longer and if FS cannot show them, why use FS for any research?
If the data owner has withdrawn FS access, then just insert that as the reason. It would resolve a lot of frustration. If this is happening more frequently, this raises questions - is FS being deliberately cut out by paid sources, is the data owner trying to raise money from FS, etc.?
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