Information about Count von Preysing and Baron von Griesenbach
Hi,
I am not sure how this works but I have a few road blocks that I think must not be that hard but I am struggling. I would like to find out as much information as I can about Count von Preysing and Baron von Griesenbach.
Both were likely young noblemen who committed suicide around 1906 following a huge gambling scandal that imploded. A group of German / Bavarian Noblemen and military officers were stationed in Dieuze, France around 1905 or 1906. A gambling ring was formulated. As I understand it, Count von Preysing and Baron von Griesenbach both committed suicide as a result of this gambling scandal. I am trying to research both and finding very, very little.
Can anyone help?
Thank you
Answers
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Hi there
Not sure if you have this but found the article on the National Library of Australia https://www.nla.gov.au/
By doing a simple Google search and typing in Count von Preysing and Baron von Griesenbach.
Also if you join the German research group Here: https://community.familysearch.org/en
You may find someone that is experienced in German military records and others that may have some more insight.
Good luck with your research
If you like this answer please click on yes after "Did this answer your question" and we can see that this has been answered thank you very much.
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Hi,
Thank you. This is kind of dumb but how do we find out their first names? I wanted to find death records and came up empty handed. Is there some trick that I am not aware of to find first and last names for military and noble people. Ugh. Please forgive my ineptness here. Any advice is welcome.
Thank you!
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Hi again,
As we mentioned in our previous comments "Also if you join the German research group Here: https://community.familysearch.org/en
Click on research groups, then under the research groups, choose your language, region and location.
You may find someone that is experienced in German military records and others that may have some more insight.
There are more experienced researchers that may be able to help
Good luck in your research, Hope someone may be able to help you
PS: there are no Dumb questions just a matter of practice and learning 😀
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Hi Jennifer
Further thinking about this over the weekend:
Some clues that will help you identify their first name.
In the newspaper article, the date is Tuesday 11 Jan 1910. The article mentions trial is to begin tomorrow at Munich, So that makes the date Wednesday 12 Jan 1910.
If you could find the actual trial that may include the names of the two young officers that died.
Another idea is to find the actual death date and place of when they died, you may find a record of their death and it should have their names listed.
To find a death record, you would need to find where they recorded their deaths and if they were recorded.
Also Bavarian Military record may have their enlistment records.
Found this on Google, you might like to see if there is someone who may be able to point you in the right direction and who is experienced in the Noble families of Bavaria
You may need to do a bit of digging to find any other information as most likely (In my opinion) the "powers that be" would keep this information under wraps, although it found its way to the Victorian, Australian newspaper called "The age"
Good luck and hope you find what you are searching for :-)
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@MiriamJoyce21 , @JenniferFrisch I did some basic searching in Munich. They do have a Munich city and state archive office which has a number of records available online for searching. Here is a link
Searching for Preysing shows quite a few results but no results for Griesenbach. However nothing to lead to the court case nor to the suicide or death in 1906.
However more information is in a different Newspaper archive for the Minneapolis Journal I happened to come across.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/pdf/011709v.pdf
As this gambling den / casino was run by rather wealthy and noble officers and the suicide being rather controversial it was all hushed up. Which may explain why no details can be found with a simple search. However an enquiry to the Archive office may show you how to get a record of the court proceedings.
An email address at the research room for the Archive office is given as: lesesaal.stadtarchiv@muenchen.de
I am sure they would respond to enquiries in English and if you ask for your question to be passed on to the right department they should also do that for you. Be specific in the information you need. For instance give as much as you know about the 2 people who committed suicide and the fact that there was a court case in Munich in 1910 (which started on May 6th according to the Australian paper). Looking into the Preysing family shows not only did they have connections to the Kaiser they also had high ranking church officials (e.g. Bishops etc) in their family. Hence that was another reason why information was suppressed. Then the fact that this was a military scandal also meant that there would be very limited information made available to the public at the time.
Another way to proceed would be to find someone who can do research for you in Munich. This person would then have access to non-digitised records as well and sometimes that is the only way forward in these cases.
There is also a historical society in Bavaria which may be able to assist you. Their email address is: hv.oberbayern@online.de
I will keep looking for you. Not sure if these kind of records, as they belong to German Military Personal, would also be recorded as death records in Dieuze. Research would then have be done in French.
All the best, Inge.
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After discussion with a friend that is a retired Russian history teacher he came up with he following, we hope you find it useful.
We quote "This has been an interesting research for me, but I have come up with very little. I can find nothing for Baron von Griesenback.
RE: Count von Preysing: His name was Count Max* Preysing. This family name is often recorded as Preysing-Lichtenegg-Moos because of the families huge territorial possessions. E.g. there is a Schloss Moos which was one of the family’s castle where many of the family members were born. I suspect that Lichenegg similarly was either another castle or territory which the family acquired through marriage (but this last is an assumption on my part). The family was very large with most marriages identifying about 8 – 10 children. If you google the family Preysing-Lichtenegg-Moos, you will find lots of genealogical sites.
1. One source I have found may be particularly helpful: “Maclean Clarence River Advocate Archives Sep 11, 1906 p.4” This article identifies Count Max Preysing as one of the victims who committed suicide. The article contains 4 pages related to the trial and consequences, but they are too unclear for me to read , but you will have more skills than me. I feel that these extracts will prove very useful if you can access them. In them you may find more details for Baron von Griesenbach as well. (It is strange that this newspaper in Australia would be interested in such an event. Note the date of publication as 1906".
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An article appeared in several Australian newspapers, presumably from some syndicated source.
From the free site Trove, with the search term Count Max Preysing https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/newspapers?keyword=%22Count%20Max%20Preysing%22
Basically all the same article, but this one https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/148457954?searchTerm=%22Count%20Max%20Preysing%22 mentions the report was from the Berlin correspondent of the London Express.
One of the articles is the same as that mentioned in the post above. However the actual article is only a few paragraphs. It is on page 4 of the newspaper but that's all there appears to be. However it is possible to look through the whole newspaper.
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Great find @MaureenE123 now we know that the first name of Count Preysing is Max, so that gives @JenniferFrisch another clue.
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