The Community has too many alternative areas for ease of use
I have mentioned this as a comment elsewhere, IIRC, but am entering it as a thread in what I hope is the correct area to give it visibility.
Leaving aside "My Feeds", which I believe is my view on stuff actually held elsewhere, there appear to be three possible alternative "areas" where topics can and do appear.
- Q&A
- Groups
- Ideas
Thus Q&A has an area for "Family Tree". Groups has a group for "FamilySearch Family Tree". And "Ideas" has an area for "Family Tree".
I have read that Q&A exists to provide a simple approach to asking questions - no groups, no subscriptions, etc. Fair enough. But then I would ask - do we need both a Group for FSFT and an Ideas area?
Disadvantages are:
- Anyone wishing to help out on a topic such as FSFT has to look in three different places (I have not yet explored if MyFeeds might help, but anyone still has to know that the three areas exist, and find them, to get the input into their feed);
- No-one knows where to post - how many different areas contain the complaint that Italicising works but Bolding doesn't? (Yes people will repeat the same query in the same area - but this is appearing in more than one area);
- Divisions between (say) questions and ideas are problematic anyway, given that a question may lead into an idea.
- How on earth are the threads from the old Communities going to be split when they do enter. Why not just dump it all in one place?
Assuming that the simple Q&A facility is to continue, I would urge that either the groups for things like FSFT are moved into the corresponding Ideas area - or vice versa - to reduce the number of areas. (The "vice versa" is possibly easier to represent in the navigation bar at the side).
Comments
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I think another topic on which Adrian also posted is interesting in that it actually contains some input by FamilySearch employees.
Where is the best place to post a question relating to Family Tree?
FamilySearch employee Caleb Love said "think of the help center categories as "Transactional Support" vs Groups that arre ongoing interaction, sharing and support".
I agree with Adrian that the way things are currently structured does not produce optimum results.
Currently if you ask a question in a Group, from what I deduce, only a person in that group can answer that question, which is very restrictive especially if the Group is small. This is a change from the previous situation. I recently would have partially answered a question in a Group unanswered since February, but saw no way of doing this.
I think all questions from a Group should be copied to Q&A, and it should be possible to answer them without being a member of the group, but the answers should be copied back to the group. Of course, if copied to Q&A the question would need to be copied to the correct Help Centre Category and I am still unclear about what some of these categories actually are supposed to contain.
I think that the Q&A page, so called on the side bar, but actually titled Help Center Categories https://community.familysearch.org/en/categories/help-center-categories should have more detailed descriptions of each category and make it clear in big letters where to post genealogical queries.
I think currently people are unsure where to post questions, and interested people, who could help in answering questions, are unsure where to look for those questions.
Mark E Mitchell, FamilySearch admin in response to the FamilyTree topic above said "both of those are great places. The category is for more general questions the group is better for more specific questions. There should be people in both places who can help address your questions regardless of where you post it".
However my experience is different . Rather the current structure results in no answers at all. Seemingly quite simple questions about Help Centre categories have gone unanswered, and it seems impossible to answer a Group question without belonging to a Group, a new restriction.
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Indeed.
My personal experience is that answers like "both of those are great places" indicate a situation where the analysis, design or construction has been inadequate. People need clarity.
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FamilySearch Moderator:
I assume all these posts are being read, or someone could be getting away with posting some really nasty comments.
On the contrary, many of the posts I have been reading over the past week have contained some really positive points - i.e. constructive criticism. Sadly, the one thing they nearly all have in common is a complete lack of any response from the only individuals who can provide "answers" - FamilySearch employees: specifically the developers of this revamped Community forum.
Would you please ensure / confirm they are aware of the several problems that have been created for those who really want to continue helping those in the "FamilySearch Community". Unfortunately, the current design (as illustrated in this example) is making it so much more difficult for us to provide (and receive) that help.
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@Paul W I assure you your posts and comments are being read and when a response is warranted one is given. FamilySearch does not want to be too heavy handed in the operation of the community. We are trying to strike a balance between letting the community operate and intervening when we need to do so.
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The comments of this organization being confusing are noted and we will look at improving. Please note that these concerns have been noted and are being considered. There are some very complex issues brought up in this thread and all angles have to be considered before action is taken.
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Mark - I am not sure that we understand what's going on.
As far as I am concerned, the FamilySearch Communities is a facility provided by FamilySearch, designed by FamilySearch, configured and / or written by FamilySearch, operated by FamilySearch.
As far as I am concerned I have always assumed that the involvement of the "community" is / was two fold. The current provision of moderators / administrators and, earlier in the life-cycle, the provision of user requirements and review of proposed designs. I cannot see how the community can be held responsible for the multiplicity of screens and categories resulting in the numerous "where do I post this?" threads, since I am envisaging that FamilySearch designed it and set it all up.
This is why we are expecting FamilySearch respond. If FamilySearch wants to delegate certain things to community moderators / administrators, that's fine, but FamilySearch needs to ensure that those responses are made.
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Mark - thanks for the assurance that someone really is listening - that relieves some of the frustration. I certainly don't expect a sprinkling of magic dust will solve the issues so I definitely want all the angles to be considered.
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Yes, thanks for your response, Mark. Those of us who "came over" from the now defunct GetSatisfaction platform had been used to daily participation from the main moderator of that forum, as well as receiving ad hoc responses from other employees on more specific issues.
It is genuinely so much more difficult to participate here, particularly when it comes to knowing the best place to post. It would certainly have helped if the "divide" between Q and A, Ideas and Groups had been explained thoroughly at the onset. Take the "Family Tree" category: there are sub-sections for this in all three of these parts of Community.
Anyhow, it's good to know our problems and concerns are being noted and, hopefully, a number of the items raised will be addressed in the coming weeks.
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I have posted some comments in the topic "Posting to groups we are not members of" where it seems to have been advised that to post a reply to a question asked in a group you are now required to be a member of the group https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/77985/posting-to-groups-we-are-not-members-of#latest
I ask that this specific matter be considered along with other matters mentioned above in THIS topic, as part of the whole issue of this organisation being confusing.
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One result of the current structure , which in my view is a BAD outcome, is that some people feel they need to post the same query in multiple places.
This may because they are unsure where to post, or for other reasons such that they think some people only look at certain categories, and they will get more responses by posting more widely.
Some other Forums (not FamilySearch) definitely have policies about this, and will merge topics that have the same content, so that all replies are posted on just one topic
I saw one question which was posted in three different categories in FamilySearch Community in (from memory) Help Center Categories (at least one category of which seemed to have nothing to do with the topic), one of which I answered, only to find someone else had also spent time answering the same topic. So much better, and a better outcome, if all the views had just been on one ONE topic, not three.
I also saw today a Translation question, where information was given about two different Groups to post in. Admittedly we do not know if the questioner would choose to post in both Groups, but there is the potential for different people to be spending time and effort working on the same translation. Is this ethical?
So much easier if all the questions including Group and Ideas, also appeared in one stream, and anyone could answer, but the answer "remained" where it was originally posted.
I belong to one Forum where I can access posts though the individual sub Forums,. However when I am signed in, I also have other options such as "All Activity" "Content I posted in" "Content I started" and "Unread Content". If I want to add a comment, or am able to answer a query, however I access the topic, I just type away. The moderators have an active policy of merging duplicate topics, so that all discussions/ answers are on the one thread.
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I would like to cross reference a topic in Help Center Categories /Other to illustrate the confusion experienced by one poster 'fantarctic' who wanted translation help and 'Brett' who was helping with information.
Translation Needed and Verification Within Index https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/84421/translation-needed-and-verification-within-index
I think this illustrates that the current structure is just so confusing for people who are relying on the information provided on the current webpage for FamilySearch Community.
In respect for the request for translation help, this must be one of the most frequent types of help people want. Why not make it clear on the Community Home page that if you want translation help, go to a relevant GROUP, and why not add a heading under Groups "Groups for translation help" and List them out.
And also make it clear where to post for language help if there isn't a specific group, such as Latin (which must come up quite often) or less common languages.
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To further illustration the problem, Maureen (I think it was you) posted a topic regarding the need for a place to post problems in indexes, such as one I then immediately ran across of a birth record for a county in western Norway showing in the index for Oslo. However, I didn't have time to write anything then, neglected to bookmark it, and now I have no idea where it was or where to start looking for it.
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When looking at the Community Home page recently, my screen was sized differently to what it would normally be, and I noticed that the links on the left hand side of the webpage to 'Q and A', 'Groups' and 'Ideas' did not display.
If these do not display and you are relying on information on the Homepage, there are links to Groups (but no general information about what a Group is and when to use it) There is also a heading Help Center Categories but if you are a new user, NO INDICATION that you use these categories to ASK A QUESTION.
On the Home page there is no link to IDEAS except down the bottom of the page there is a heading "Recent Ideas" and at the time I am writing this it says "No ideas were found"
I have wondered in the past why some posts are placed by people in what seem to me to be very odd places, but if you do not see the left hand side webpage links, helpful information on the Home page is lacking, or uses FamilySearch jargon, very confusing for the new comer.
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"There is also a heading Help Center Categories but if you are a new user, NO INDICATION that you use these categories to ASK A QUESTION."
I see they still haven't fixed the clash between "Q&A" on the icon and "Help Centre Categories" on the target screen. Everything else matches (for which kudos is due) - "My Feeds" goes to a screen called "My Feeds", "Groups" to a screen called "Groups", etc. But not "Q&A", leading everybody unclear just what "Help Center Categories" is actually for if you come in a different way.
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Here's another instance:
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/84765/hesse-versus-hessen was posted in Q&A / Other - it's a one (ish) line question about the two (German) place-names Hesse & Hessen - roughly, the OP asks are they the same and which spelling should be used if they are?
There are 7 comments (one of which appears to be the high level answer) and two of which advise that the issue should be raised in the German Genealogy group. One of those last two has been marked as the Accepted Answer, although all it does is advise reposting in the German Group.
My understanding was that Q&A was for quick questions without the necessity of doing things like joining a Group - yet here the Community is (contrarily) advising that the Q&A should not have been used but the question should have been posted in the Group.
It's not working very well is it?
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Several great feedback items and suggestions. I’ve captured the specifics and will move this thread to under consideration.
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I was looking at the stream "Recent Discussions" recently.
Firstly the link for it is hidden under multiple layers you need to click through before you come to a link for it . The only way I have found is to open either Q and A, or Ideas, or Groups, then select a category, then select an individual post, then look under Quick Links , then select Recent Discussions. Is there a simpler way?
Secondly I was interested to see some posts from a Group called My Groups https://community.familysearch.org/en/categories/my-groups
This was interesting from two points of view. It appears to be the only Group which appears in the stream "Recent Discussions". I assume if it appears in "Recent Discussions" anyone can answer a query. Just interested to know if posts from "My Groups" can appear in "Recent Discussions" why posts from all other groups similarly can not. (Previously it has been advised you have to be a member of a particular Group to answer a Question posted by a member of the Group, which is a policy I disagree with.).
In addition if I click on Groups I cannot see a Group called "My Groups". Where are the posts being made in "My Groups" actually coming from- how do people know it is there?
Edit: I have now noticed another Group appearing in "Recent Discussions"" called "Research Groups"
https://community.familysearch.org/en/categories/research-groups
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Re "Recent Discussions" - when I got to the page you described it's got "Home / Recent Discussions" at the top of the page, implying that it should be a link off the Home page. Yet I can't see any such link. (There is a link to Recent Ideas but that doesn't actually go anywhere!) Sounds like another mismatch in the navigation.
Re "My Groups" - my natural assumption was that this isn't a group as such but the assembly of all the Groups that I had joined. However, when I look at the 4 groups that I'm a member of and compare them to the list of items in "My Groups" - it doesn't match. I'm seeing Spanish, Scandinavian, Central European questions there none of which appear to match my Groups. And of course, going in to look at the detail of the questions tells me nothing about the group (if it was a group) that they were posted in. So I have no idea what this "My Groups" feed represents. Again, there appears to be no logic behind the navigation. I'm sure this is totally unfair - I'm sure that there is logic - it's just remarkably well hidden!
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I have seen advice that the Indexing Chat Group is to be closed, perhaps in response to the ideas expressed in this thread.
"On June 15, 2021 help for indexing and review will be strictly found in the Q and A Help Center – Indexing tab of the FamilySearch Community, and the Indexing Chat group will no longer exist".
From the post ❤️ A Tender Farewell and Thank You ❤️
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Mark
And, here is ANOTHER one to add to what 'Maureen' previously referenced above (ie, mentioning 'Me') ...
Translation Help - Merz or Mertz? and Wife's maiden name and her father's name and info
Brett
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Mark
And, yet, here is ANOTHER one to add to what 'Maureen' previously referenced above (ie. mentioning 'Me') ...
Q & A
Home > Help Center Categories > Other
Could I get help with this burial record in Fehrmarn , Germany?
Brett
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