Release child to be sealed

LegacyUser

TJ Price said: James Williams, PID # L7N8-9RH is marked as stillborn. However, the parents gave him a name so there is the possibility that he at least took a breath. We know that children who died as infants are often marked as stillborn. Just in case, we feel it is important that he be sealed to his parents.
Please let us know if you can release the stillborn so he can be sealed to his parents.
Thanks for all you do.
Merlin J. Price, (g.g.grand nephew to James Williams.)

LegacyUser

Jordi Kloosterboer said: You can delete the stillborn information if you do not think he was stillborn. I do not see any sources. Consider finding evidence that he was not stillborn besides the name. FamilySearch makes it possible to do ordinance work for stillborn babies in the Netherlands because of this fact, but it seems that stillborn information in Wales means they really were stillborn.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: When there is no source to indicate a child did not take a breath upon being born, then error on the side that says the child was born alive. Do not guess in this area.

Also keep in mind that at various times in history, the term stillborn was used for a child who died shortly after birth, and not just for those who never took a breath.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Tom

I totally agree.

Whereas, I do not think that it is limited to just various times in history, I am certain that such is still happening even today, not so much; but, 'Yes', it would still be happening, even today.

As I indicated, I did some "Checking" (GRO and FamilySearch"). Apart from what a saw in the GRO, I saw a number of "Sources" (eg. Births; Deaths; and, Burials) for a "James WILLIAMS" from "Pembrokeshire" in "Wales" in 1842. As this is not my Ancestral line I would not presume to know or say that any of those "Sources" relate to the "James WILLIAMS" in question.

But, I still maintain that, in this case, 'TJ Price', if they have not already, they should at least try to make contact with the User/Patron who appears to have been responsible for "Creating" that "James WILLIAM" pre.2012 in "New.FamilySearch"; as, that User/Patron may have supporting evidence or information handed down through the generations.

Personally, I would like "Still Born" Children to be able to be "Sealed" to their Parents - but, that is just me.

Brett

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LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: Brett, if my memory is correct, I believe the current position is, whenever there is a question on "still born" is to go ahead and perform the sealing.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Tom

Again, I agree with you.

Question here in this case is, whether or not, all avenues have been explored.

Remember, the User/Patron who 'Created' the individual/person was the User/Patron who added the "Still Born" record.

Personally, with regard to your proceeding reference, with only the very minimal and basic research I undertook in short time; and, the fact, that the User/Patron who 'Created' the individual/person was the User/Patron who added the "Still Born" record, and, further, without all avenues being explored, in this case, I DO NOT believe that the 'Status' of "Still Born" should be removed.

But, that is just me - each to their own.

Brett

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LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: I decided to look into this particular case and several things came to mind.

First, the record has an AFN, indicating it goes back to the Ancestal File (CD) days in 2013. The record is attributed to an individual who entered both the AFN in a note as well as the Stillborn classification. There is an email address for the person, but since this was seven years ago (2013), it is worth the try to see if the contributor has more information.

The events took place in Wales and I do not know what is available in terms of gravestone records, so that needs to be chased down.

There are burial records in FamilySearch, with a complete index from FindMyPast (UK). There is a James Williams born in 1842 and buried in 1842, in the Parish Registers. Whether this is James, born to (according to FamilyTree profile) Thomas and Janet Williams, is something I cannot determine since I do not have an account with Find My Past and have no reason to create one at this time.

Thomas Williams died in Bear Lake in Idaho, and that suggests there may be some family records that provides more information.

It is likely that the record for the stillbirth (if that was the case) can only be found among the family records, since before certain acts took place in the 20th century, a stillbirth was generally not recorded according to what I came up with.

So, family records may be the only source for the information concerning "stillbirth" and in that case, any records found for the birth and death in the official records of the time will likely not be for a stillbirth, but for a child who died shortly after birth.

Looking at the sources for the parents, the 1851 census is telling -- there is a gap between the birth of one child and that of James (in 1844), suggesting that he was named after the previously-born James, who died in 1842. There is also a record for another male child also born in 1842 and deceased who is also not recorded in the 1851 census.

Looking at the ordinance dates for the father as well as the other James Williams (b 1844), the family was a convert family and the father's record indicates he was endowed in the Endowment House. The birth/confirmation is later, suggesting that early baptismal records from England and Wales needs to be searched for a better record as this was likely a life baptism for the Father.

Yes, more research needs to be completed and it appears that not everything has been as thoroughly searched as possible. I don't know what the early missionary records were like for the early missionaries, but there may be nothing more than a journal history (from a missionary) that can provide the details. That means the Church History Department records need to be accessed.

Getting back to the question on stillbirth for the first James (of the family), my preference is to spent some time seeking personal revelation of a family member who is sensitive to the promptings of the spirit. Then make the decision based upon the promptings of the spirit.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: T J Price -- if you are descended from this family, then if you have a feeling that the child needs to be sealed, then delete the stillborn from the "other" category and take care of the vicarious ordinance. Be sure the document your feelings, even as personal as they may be.