Titles for temple work

LegacyUser

Alice Ament Gedge said: I have a suggestion:
Currently, I have to remove titles before and add them back in again after I have a FOR printed and cards printed. It just adds to what is already a long process. (assuming that I do research for a name). The titles are often all that we have to go on, to differentiate between 2 men of the same name.

I wondered if the software engineers couldn't exclude the first box that contains the title when they place names in the temple file.

LegacyUser

Chas Howell said: Right, I don't know why "titles" are printed on the family file cards at all. A "title" is not part of the given name but they will print on the card in the "Given Name" area of the family file card. This causes an issue in the temple work.

The solution is to either prohibit titles from being printed on the cards or print the titles in a separate "Title" box. I prefer not printing on the cards as Alice Gedge suggested. The great majority of temple patrons would never think of or go to all the trouble that Alice does to get a correctly printed family file card.

LegacyUser

Ron Tanner said: Can you give me a PID of someone you are having to remove the title? We certainly have the goal that titles should not get in the way for temple cards. The should only be used if Mr. or Mrs. are in there.

LegacyUser

Alice Ament Gedge said: Here is one: L8PN-NRH
Last week I wanted to clear his name and so I thought I had gone in and removed the title. Apparently it was only partially removed (it only showed his name on the details screen, but the title wasn't completely removed). I printed the FOR and took it to the temple, thinking that perhaps the title wouldn't show up on the card. But it did show up and the temple wouldn't accept it. So I came home and added it back. I will try again some other time.

By the way, this example doesn't necessarily use the title to identify him, because he has other identifying information. But there are men that are only separated because they have different titles and we don't know anything else about them. They are identified that way in the histories, the deeds, and vital records. Community trees at the FHL identifies men using their titles. So please don't remove the box for titles, or we will have some huge messes.

LegacyUser

Chas Howell said: Here are two I tried today.

LDZF-NYV Alfred J Forbes. You would expect it to print on the family card,
"Alfred J" in the Given name box and "Forbes" in the Surname box. (did not test that but believe that to be the case) but when I put in a title of "Rev", the subsequent FOR produced a family card with "Rev Alfred J Forbes" in one box titled "Name".

I also tested KV2X-Q1C by putting in "Test" in the title box on family tree and got one "Name" box on the family card with "Test Nancy Tennison" on the family card.

It appears than if anything is put in the Title box on FSFT, the entire name, all given names and surname and title are combined into one box on the family card.

LegacyUser

Chas Howell said: Related thread;
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

LegacyUser

Andrew T. (Tas) Johnson said: Titles may be placed in the Other Information section. There will not be a mess if people entering data are careful. If they do cause a problem, then interested persons should mark their Watch list in order to be informed of any changes which are not correct and then change them back to the right information. Sources are very important references so that one may know if the right person is being identified.

The replies and answers so far do not address the issue / doctrine of equality for all members inside the temple, so please do not close my idea too soon. Titles should not be used because a perception of inequality becomes apparent. That is my main concern and reason for submitting the idea to not print titles on temple ordinance cards or have titles read when ordinances are performed.

I look forward to a reply which addresses my idea.

Andrew T. Johnson

LegacyUser

Alice Ament Gedge said: I introduced the topic because dealing with titles frustrates me and adds several more steps to clearing my names for temple work. I had hoped that the programmers could make it possible to not include the information in the titles box when selecting a name. Not knowing anything about programming, I didn't know how hard that would be. Already, the program makes hard things appear to be easy. I just wanted them to know that this user would appreciate this addition.

I understand a little, why having titles in the temple doesn't help. I don't have a problem with that.

I understand that this program is used by many people with different ideas and different reasons for using the program. I have done enough research on people who don't have identifying information, other than a title, to realize how vital it is to include a title alongside a name. When I merge people, or separate them, it would be much harder if I had to look at the notes and write down PID information on each of the persons involved. It is often very difficult to keep these individuals separate as it is.

If we can only have it one way, I would sooner deal with the program the way it is and be frustrated only when I submit a name for temple work, rather than be frustrated every time I try to identify a person and keep his or her page clean, with the correct parents and spouse(s) and children.

Alice Gedge

LegacyUser

Angelo Longo said: I agree with you Alice. I'd also add that titles are essential if FamilySearch wants to keep the ambition to have the main World Family Tree based on scholarly historical research methods. Titles had the utmost importance in the past (and often even today), as records give us evidence. Not include titles in names would then be also unfair to history and put people out of the social context they where living in.

On the other hand, I also agree that titles should be avoided in temple work, so I too suggest to just remove them automatically in the card printing process. At least it should be sure they are kept separate from the first names to distinguish them (it's been a problem with workers speaking a different language in my Temple) if we have to include titles when we have to read the full name. I think that is not the case, but if it is it should be clearly stated, because some temple workers read them, while others suggested me not to print them (FamilySearch instead does it)!

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: Printing ordinance cards pulls the name from the vitals name. Unless a title is bestowed at birth, only the birth name should be recorded and not any title that was awarded in later life.

The only exception is when the person changes their name through court action, such as an adoption or as sometimes happens, a performer changes their legal name (not simply adopting a stage name). Then the legal name is used in the vitals section.

If a title is part of the name that was given at birth, then it would be (correctly) printed on the ordinance card.

LegacyUser

Angelo Longo said: Thank you very much for your answer, I needed that. Now I understand that titles acquired during one's lifetime should be added to the Alternate Name in the “Other Information” section.