Access to familysearch for non-members - is it the same as LDS members?

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Beki Knott said: Can a person with a non member Family Search account upload their Ancestry files into their tree?

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Tom Huber said: To add to what Brett has already mentioned, the problem with trying to use a GEDCOM (uploaded to the Genealogies section) to feed Family Tree is that the compare tool is inadequate and that causes problems, creating the ability to possibly destroy a good entry with one that has errors (possibly created by copying a paper record).

What is needed, and this goes beyond the upload compare functionality used by the older GEDCOM routines to include the Source Linker, as well as the merge screen, is that we cannot view existing reason statements. Since they are hidden, we do not know why a person may have put in the existing "conclusion" for the event and therefore, inadvertently overwrite the existing data. At the present time, the source linker will not overwrite existing data to which a source is being attached, so that is not as much of an issue, but it would be nice if the same details screen could be made available to each portion of the site where we can added information (GEDCOM add; Source Linker (usually from a hint), and merging two records together.

If that kind of tool becomes universally available in FamilySearch for working with FamilyTree and outside materials (hints, a duplicate within the massive tree, or something from our own uploaded GEDCOM), then I think the system will be in good shape to resolve the present problems we encounter.

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Jeff Wiseman said: Beki,

The nature of the question that you asked reveals that you may not fully understand that the entire structure of the FamilySearch FamilyTree is completely different from the way Ancestry.com and most other tree type sites work.

Ancestry.com (like several other sites) provides each person with an account and a space to build their own protected tree that nobody else can access, so as a result their databases have thousands and thousands of different trees many of which contain variations and duplicates of the same records.

The FamilySearch FamilyTree (FSFT) is a database that contains ONE common tree that everyone with an account can add to, modify, and update. You can change data that anyone else has put in, and they can change any of the data that you put in. If there are any duplicates of a record in the database, everything is set up to find those and merge them together. This means that if a record of your grandfather exists in the tree, normally it will be the ONLY instance of him and anyone will be able to see and modify it. Currently there are about 1.2 BILLION person records in the FSFT!

So as you can see, “you” would never have a “tree of your own”—so your question about people uploading Ancestry files to “their trees” does not have any real meaning within the context of the FSFT.

Note that there ARE some very small exceptions to all the above. For example within your account you are given a small “Private Space” where you can maintain your own protected tree of LIVING individuals. Nobody else can see those or muck around with them. This is a personal data security thing. It also allows you to create a tree from you back to your deceased ancestors by linking through your living ancestors that you have in your private space.

The following illustrates this:



Now, getting to what I am sure was the INTENT of your original question :-) Yes, it is possible to transfer data from any number of other family history type databases and use it to refine the data already in the single FSFT. Brett and Tom have already talked a bit about it above.

For example, anyone with a third party tool such as RootsMagic or Ancestral Quest can do direct updates in either direction with their PC based tool and the FSFT. One or two commercial sites can do this as well if you have LDS accounts with them (e.g., Ancestry.com, and soon to be MyHeritage.com).

If you don't have an LDS account on one of those sites, it is possible to move data using a GEDCOM file. You can upload the GEDCOM file into FamilySearch genealogy database. This is NOT the FSFT, but rather is a separate read only archive area that can be used for reference.

Now, it is also possible to run a type of comparison between data in your uploaded GEDCOM file and data that is in the FS FamilyTree database, and transfer data to the FSFT database based on your comparisons. I hesitate to even mention this prehistoric "GEDCOM Compare Tool" since many innocent folks trying to use it have caused significant damage to the database because of how extremely poor it is at supporting accurate transfers of data and merging of records as well as how it totally blinds you to most of the information that has been recorded in person Records that you need to accurately choose how to use your GEDCOM data. In a very short period of time you can totally blow away decades of detailed research in the FSFT that can take weeks to fix--And you might not even see what it was that you did! The link that Brett mentioned goes into gory details of just what can go wrong.

So if you have some ancestral… [truncated]

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Beki Knott said: My reason for asking was that as an LDS member, I have both an ancestry account and a family search account. My ancestry account is free because I am LDS and I got it along time ago through my family search account. There is a function there where I can transfer new information into my family search account. My reason for asking was that as an LDS member, I have both an ancestry account and a family search account. My ancestry account is free because I am LDS and I got it along time ago through my family search account. There is a function there where I can transfer new information into my family search account. I was just wondering if that’s possible for people who are not LDS

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Jeff Wiseman said: No. It only works that way between your FS LDS account and your Ancestry LDS account. Otherwise you have to use a GEDCOM file, and that will only let you move data from Ancestry.com to the FS Geneaologies area (you can't generate a GEDCOM form FSFT), but that is quite problematic.

The best way is to go through a third party tool. For example, Ancestral Quest will sync to FSFT as well as Ancestry.com. You can also download a GEDCOM from ancestry into an AQ database, and then sync it to FSFT.

Direct syncing between FSFT and Ancestry.com (and in the near future MyHeritage.com) can only be done between LDS accounts. Note that LDS accounts on other sites (especially MyHeritage) will have certain limitations to protect FSFT.

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Adrian Bruce said: In my experience, Ancestry's coding of their GEDCOM export is poor. If you do intend to get something out of your Ancestry tree, I'd advise trying a sync between Ancestry and a desktop program. You may find that works better - I've never tried it, but I'm tempted to say that it could hardly be worse... Your mileage may vary.

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Juan Vasquez said: TOM HUBER is nice you are so active in this blog.

I want to ask you or someone else for a favor.

I have no access to some microfilms where the mariage of my grand grand fathers is.

I ́m looking for the marriage of Domingo Molina and Torcoroma Conde on 11 august 1881, book 46 page 153 on this link https://www.familysearch.org/search/f...

Can anyone helpme sending me the image? my e-mail :jvasquezg@promotora.com.co

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A van Helsdingen said: Interesting that some of the records of that church are unrestricted and others are: https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...

It makes no sense, for instance, that a 1639-1757 alphabetical index is LDS only, while a 1639-1911 index is unrestricted.

Juan, I would contact this church (or the diocesan archive), ask why some records are restricted, ask politely if the restrictions could be relaxed,and ask if there is an alternative way to view the records.

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Juan Vasquez said: TOM HUBER is nice you are so active in this blog.

I want to ask you or someone else for a favor.

I have no access to some microfilms where the mariage of my grand grand fathers is.

I ́m looking for the marriage of Domingo Molina and Torcoroma Conde on 11 august 1881, book 46 page 153 on this link https://www.familysearch.org/search/f...

Can anyone helpme sending me the image? my e-mail :jvasquezg@promotora.com.co

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Tom Huber said: This has been discussed before, A and it was reported that some indexes are time-restricted because FS did not produce the index and what is used is from another site. When FS uses those indexes, it is by agreement with the company that produced the index and as such, some indexes have a restriction based upon a "window" in which the pay site can offer the index as part of its collection. From past discussions, that appears to have been limited to about a year or maybe a bit longer.

Juan, there is a restriction on downloading the image, so I did a couple of screen shots. The first is of the full page and the second is of the record itself. I just sent an email with the images attached.

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Tom Huber said: By the way, I don't know the reason behind the restrictions on the records in the film, but they are there, even for me. The first few pages of the film are indexes to the rest of the record. It took some looking, but I was able to find the marriage records as item 10 on the film itself.

I don't think this was a restriction because the index was produced somewhere else. In looking at the attached records, it appears they were part of the old extraction program. The images are not matched up against the index produced by the extraction record. The restriction appears to be on the records in the film itself. While I can view the images, I cannot download them "Due to contract restrictions this feature is disabled." (referring to the download tool).

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A van Helsdingen said: "some indexes have a restriction based upon a "window" in which the pay site can offer the index as part of its collection. From past discussions, that appears to have been limited to about a year or maybe a bit longer."

There is a collection on FS of considerable size that has been online for a while now, and is restricted (at the request of Ancestry.com) to 2021. I know this because some of the contract has been read out to me. I cannot, for confidentiality reasons, reveal which collection.

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Juan Vasquez said: Tom thaky ou very much, I received the images, they are great, thanks so much

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Chavez Aguilar said: i set up an acct in the name of a homeless man who died and I went to court and got custody of his body to keep him from going in a potters' field because I knew how religious he was. The temple link does not appear and I want his temple work done. I talked to the temple president to see if the court order I got gives me the right to have his temple work done and was told yes. But how? I don't want this man's name in my account. And I can't seem to access anything on the account I set up for him. In fact, I can't even show he is dead. The system will not let me.

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gasmodels said: because you set up the account in his name the system thinks he is living and you cannot make yourself deceased as you are trying to do when you log into the account you set up. It would be better to use the recents drop down and add an unconnected person to create the record. All records of deceased individuals in Family Tree are accessible by any user and no records belong to any "account". This a common mis-conception. Create the non-connected person and make them deceased.

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Jeff Wiseman said: Also make a note of the PID for the deceased record. Since it is not connected to anyone else yet, you'll need that to get back to the record when reserving the ordinances.

Also remember that you will need to wait a year from his death date before ordinances can begin. In the mean time you might be able to find some parents perhaps? If you can, there's always a possibility that you can tie him to the main tree.

And you you have access to the actual death record, attach it as a source

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Jeanne Marie Peugh said: Is there a specific list of what is available for member and non-members. As the FHC Director could I know so when a patrons comes up with these questions I can explain why they cannot access them?

Jeanne Peugh

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A van Helsdingen said: Whenever you try to access images, whether through the Catalog or historical Collections, a message if you are unable to view the images that lists the categories of people eligible to view the images.

There are billions of records on FS, so there is no list. The closest thing is the FS Wiki page for each collection, but the information there is often inaccurate or out of date.

Note also that about a week ago FS seems to have stopped making some records more accessible to Latter Day Saint members. Records that were previously LDS-only now have a message "You may be able to view this image by visiting one of our partners' sites or the legal record custodian (fees may apply).". If the records were previously more accessible to LDS than non-LDS, the viewing rights of LDS have been reduced so they are the same as non-LDS.

Therefore, in most cases, the only factors that determine whether you can view images are whether you are at a Family History Center, or an Affiliate Library. All your patrons at a FHC should now be getting equal access to the records regardless of their religion.

As for explaining to patrons why the restrictions exist, there are several Knowledge Articles on this topic. In brief, record owners control how their records are used. The main reason for record owners not wishing to make their records easily accessible on FS is that the records are on a pay-to-use website as well.

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MaureenE said: Regarding the comments made by A van Helsdingen October 28, 2019 19:38 above about the changes made a week or so ago, I strongly suspect that the extra viewing rights of LDS church members have not changed at all and the only thing that has changed is the restriction message seen by non LDS church members.

As a non LDS church member I believe the restriction message I see will only tell me what, and how, I can access.

I cannot prove what I strongly suspect unless a LDS church member confirms
Eg
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...

Can a LDS church member advise whether they can see these records on their home computers? As a non LDS church member, I can only view these records at a FHC.

Perhaps Jeanne Peugh is able to sign-in both as a Church member, and non LDS church member according to the status of her FHC patron/customer (as I seem to recall someone on this Feedback Forum is able to do), so that she is able to give advice to the patron/customer. However, if what I suspect is true, this must be a very confusing situation for those giving advice in FHCs

I believe that the extra access to records for LDS Church members is what they can see on their home computers, so for persons present at a FHC I would think access would be the same.

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Tom Huber said: Film # 005136984 - As a member, I could access the images, but they all have message, "This image courtesy of Find My Past, Ltd."

When I opened the catalog entry in your link, the camera with key icon appeared briefly and then was replaced by the camera icon by itself.

I happen to have an account with Find My Past and FamilySearch is aware of that, so I'm not sure what triggers are sitting somewhere, out of plain sight.

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Tom Huber said: I ran into an interesting situation when a FHC patron attempted to download an image and the little "no you don't" circle with a slash through it appeared when we moved the mouse pointer over the Download link.

It didn't matter if I was a member of not. We could only view the images. The patron wanted to send them to a person she was paying to translate the material. (We found a way to print the image, but it was not easy or pretty...)

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MaureenE said: Thanks Tom.

Were your comments about the download in the post immediately above in respect of Film # 005136984?

I have also copied your comments about Film # 005136984 to the topic
Historical Records and Affiliate Libraries. Programming bug, FS decision or external Archive direction?
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

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Tom Huber said: Hi MaureenE,

I don't remember what the film number was. Sorry.

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Adrian Bruce said: Visibility but no saveability is a reasonable restriction in theory (not saying anything about that specific case). But the extra work necessary for the translation is an unfortunate effect, to say the least. Difficult to see any way round it!

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MaureenE said: As a matter of interest, Tom, does the download situation appear to apply to ALL records which are "restricted" by only being available to view at a FHC, or does it appear to apply to some particular subset, or perhaps you have only come across the one instance?

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Adrian Bruce said: I'm not attempting to speak on behalf of Tom but just as a matter of record, as a non-member I've certainly dealt with images that are visible but not downloadable, so the principle is nothing new. (This is over the public internet, not in an FHC).

At a quick glance at my records, it appears to apply to those Bishops' Transcripts from Devon that I have recorded - whether it applies to any other collections, or even to all Devon BTs, I've no idea.

Devon is notoriously picky over internet access - the parishes have to give permission for a number of things (this may not be confined to Devon, it's just that Devon's the one that I've come across) and a number of parishes have withheld permission for "their" registers to appear even on FindMyPast. (Info from Devon FHS and Devon RO, so I trust it).

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alanmoll said: Regardless of whether you can or can't download an image, I rarely use the download feature when capturing genealogical records. If you are on a Windows computer, the Snipping Tool allows you to capture any portion of the screen image. You can even rotate the screen image 90 degrees if that orientation works better.

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David Newton said: It's not the parishes, it's the incumbents of the parishes who are the problem. So far as I can tell a C of E parish priest is a corporation sole from the point of view of things like parish registers. That means they control access to the registers etc. So if you have a particularly ornery incumbent they can cause all sorts of problems.

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Tom Huber said: Hi MaureenE,

It was only one set of records, which was most curious. We reported the problem through the "Errors" link on the catalog page. Again, I do not remember, other than our patron was attempting to obtain printed copies that she could mail (not email) to a person who would translate the page for her.

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Tom Huber said: The snipping tool is unique to Windows 10, which is what our FHC computers are. We found a clean way to use the tool to produce what the patron wanted.