Access to familysearch for non-members - is it the same as LDS members?
Comments
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Don M Thomas said: Gasmodels, I am thinking that the restrictions would apply to any historical records that would have to do with Temple work, and non-members really would not be interested in that anyway. Are there other historical records that non-members can not access?0
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gasmodels said: There are some record collections where there is an agreement with the owner of the records that only members can see the original images. I do not have at my fingertips. However many of them can be viewed by anyone in a Family History Center. See the comment above by Nancy Tychonievich also look below at the comment by Garry Evans regarding Phillipines records.0
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Don M Thomas said: Thank you. Interesting.0
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S. said: Teebar 44444 just kidding,if you have been a golfer or around one you would understand why I say that, glad for you and your cousin. I hope the best for you family history hunting, It is sure hard to find people in Italy. I have had bad luck at finding the names I am looking for their. good luck I hope you enjoy the High monments, and I hope they don't go dry.0
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teebar said: Thanks! I consider it very lucky to have discovered a cousin on Ancestry and to have learned how to read 18th and 19th century priest scrawl, aka cursive. Fortunately there are amazing cheat sheets for Latin and Italian terms. Also my GF tipped me off about which village my family was living in at the time before he died.0
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Jay Lieske said: I’m afraid that there's been a change. Twenty-five years ago I paid for a film on extended loan FHL# 1475021 for Wald-Ülversheim in Rheinhessen. I now live in a different state and the digitized version of this same film has finally become available — but it’s only available to LDS members. And the film can no longer be ordered from the FHL. That’s a major change in my book.0
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Gordon Collett said: Have you tried going to a Family History Library and viewing it there? That's what you had to do with the microfilm.
For many of the films for which FamilySearch does not have permission from the owner for unlimited online access, they do still have permission to let anyone access it at a Family History Library.0 -
Tom Huber said: I served at our local FHC on Saturday and ran into the situation with a non-member patron. She could not access some German records, but I, with my member account, could. So yes, the situation is that there are records that access is limited to LDS members, no matter where the records are accessed.
This is under the control of the original record owners. The restricted access for the records does not make sense to me, that we have no control over the situation. That we can access the digital images, even if we have act on behalf of the non-members, is better than no access at all.0 -
Tom Huber said: Membership is required for some records, even at a Family History Center.
The film situation is unfortunate, but is the result of technology making old technology obsolete and when a physical element is involved, and that element is no longer available (film stock).
We have been told that FamilySearch is working to renegotiate access rights to be as wide as possible. Unless information becomes available about which record access is or is not being negotiated becomes available, then we won't know if a final decision has been reached or not.
Note: It is very common for negotiations to seldom be made public by any parties to a contractual agreement, regardless of who the parties are to the contract.0 -
Marcin Wosnitza said: Hello
I'm particulary interested in Silesia and the "restricted" films from this collection:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...
My focus is on the baptism films from 1651-1772, 1660-1693 and 1651-1766.
Why are those films restricted, as here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...
they are available, but in a worser quality (white/black contrast issues), as they were filmed in 1932.
I got in my research till 1781 and could extrapolate that one ancestor most likely was born ca. 1760.
Is there any chance that the films mentioned in the first collection will be available to non LDS members?0 -
MaureenE said: As a non LDS church member, the message I get for the records mentioned in the post above is
"To view these images you must do one of the following:
Sign in to Familysearch.org as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Access the site at a family history center.
Access the site at a FamilySearch affiliate library."
You need to check whether there is a suitable family history centre or affiliate library available to you.
https://www.familysearch.org/location...
Some hints in this link from FIBIS Fibiwiki, including information about Affiliate Libraries
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/FamilySearch...0 -
Tom Huber said: Only if the owners / custodians of the original records modify the agreement they have with FamilySearch regarding the access that was granted for the second filming.0
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Marcin Wosnitza said: And how can this be achieved? For the first collection (of which I'm interested in) as well as for the second, the author is mentioned as Katholische Kirche Ziemientzitz (Kr. Tost-Gleiwitz) (Main Author).
So what? Is the church in Ziemiecice (as the town is called today) the original owner? How can they give view rights for one filming and not for the other one? This is somewhat contradictory.
Do I have to ask for permission, or can the LDS do it?0 -
Tom Huber said: Their decision. You'll have to ask the owners. Of course, in the process, you could jeopardize seeing any of the material.
FamilySearch attempts to obtain the widest possible access for the material it films and subsequently digitizes. In the process of directly digitizing original material, again the widest possible access is desired.
It is really an owner decision and, in many cases, they will grant full access. However, there may be extenuating circumstances.
For instance, we have been informed that there are time-limited access restrictions where another organization has indexed the material in exchange for exclusive rights to display the original material on their for-profit site.
As a user, the best I can do is to relay what we have been repeatedly told. I am a user and would love better access for some records. However, if the owners of original material go through an administration change, it has been my personal experience that they will restrict access in hopes of increasing cash flow from genealogical researchers.
Scotland has always been like that, from what I understand. Even if a person travels to Scotland to look at the records, they will need to bring a lot of money. The idea of a person from Scotland being "Scotch" applies in certain instances, and I have Scot-Irish ancestry.
One thing to keep in mind is that before the era of digitized records, the only place you could access a film of records was at a FamilySearch facility, which in some cases, included affiliated public libraries. Today, I am very happy that I can access any records from our homes, even if I have to pay (on the for-profit sites) to get that access.
The alternative, in many cases is paying the cost of travel, food, and lodging (which I have done even as recently as earlier this year) when material is not available online.0 -
A van Helsdingen said: The owner might not be the actual church, but rather the diocese to which the church belongs or the archive that stores the record.
Probably the best way of knowing whether there's any chance the record owner might permit free access is whether another site has the records behind a paywall. If so, the owner obviously will be reluctant to give up an income stream by making them free on FamilySearch.
I would recommend contacting the owner, and asking them to reconsider their decision to restrict access to the records. At the same time you should ask them if there is an alternative way to view the records. I recently did this and it uncovered a situation where all the Protestant church records for an entire province of Germany may have had the wrong restriction applied.0 -
A van Helsdingen said: Interesting point you make about Scotland- you can view all Scotland church records as digital microfilm on FS at FHCs and Affiliate Libraries only, bypassing the fees charged on the ScotlandsPeople website- a rare example of non-LDS being able to bypass fees charged on other websites by using FS.0
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Adrian Bruce said: "a rare example of non-LDS being able to bypass fees charged on other websites by using FS. " Just to be clear, it's by using FS at FHCs or Affiliates.
And in fact, it's not particularly rare if you're a Brit - for the counties that I'm interested in, most either have, or intend to have, commercial agreements for publishing their PRs. In those cases, if the originals were filmed by FamilySearch, then the typical restriction is that the digitised images on FS are visible to anyone at an FHC or at affiliate libraries (sometimes).0 -
Marcin Wosnitza said: Ok....so basically I have to go to the diocese which governs all the churches in my area, and ask them (or the archbishop?) to contact the LDS in order to re-set the restrictions on the records, which LDS administers?
As far as I know, the church records are held in an archive either in Katowice or maybe even Warsaw, because definitely a small church in a small village will surely not have a book from 1660 in their possession.0 -
Tom Huber said: Keep in mind that if these are Catholic Church Records and controlled by the RCC, that the official stance is not to grant access to records for genealogical purposes. Not all jurisdictions apply that stance, but in some cases, you'll find that asking may raise an awareness about who has copies of the records (a Church that is not a Catholic Church) and cause the owners to request a change in who can access the records.0
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A van Helsdingen said: Actually, many Catholic records from many different countries are online at various genealogical websites, and most (all?) diocesan archives will allow visitors to view their records. The Catholic Church however does not wish for their records to be filmed by FamilySearch, since they disagree with the proxy baptism practice of the LDS church. But it was only in 2009 that they announced that policy, and vast numbers of FamilySearch films from before that date remain on FS.0
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Tom Huber said: I ran into an interesting situation yesterday while serving as staff for our local FHC. The patron -- a non-member, came across a page of the dreaded Images Not Available. She checked the catalog and the icon was the standard camera icon --
-- which says the images should be available with no limitations. I logged in with my own account for her and the same thing still happened -- the page of "not available" images. So I reported it through the catalog entry. Since this patron is a regular, I asked that she check at a later date to see what, if anything, had been done.
There are errors in the Catalog and that was one of them. It has been reported and hopefully, we'll find out why the images could not be viewed. Window 10, FHC image, Chrome browser. between 1:00 and 2:00 PM, mountain time.0 -
alanmoll said: Not true. Many films are only available to members.0
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A van Helsdingen said: In addition to digital microfilms viewable only by LDS members, there are many films which LDS can view more easily than non-LDS (e.g. LDS can view it at home while non-LDS must go to a FHC or Affiliate Library).0
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Jeff Wiseman said: S., Yes you can, but only one of those can be a member specific account. That is because the account is rooted in the church membership number. Also the ID and password on the member account can be the same with other LDS site data that a person has access to.0
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Brett said: 'Yes'; but, there are also many Films that Members of the Church CANNOT view at Home and have to go to the "Family History Library" in Salt Lake City ( FHL ); or, a "Family History Centre" ( FHC ); or, "Affiliate" Library; and, there are also some FILMS that CANNOT viewed at any of the aforementioned. Such is life.0
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Richard Famiglietti said: How does one go about getting membership? I have not seen it in any of the responses here.0
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A van Helsdingen said: "Membership" is referring to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (a.k.a Mormon or LDS). You would need to go through their procedures for gaining membership.
A forum user who is an LDS member could give further details on this if you are interested.0 -
Jeff Wiseman said: Don't forget about the Fast offering, building fund, missionary fund, and ward budget funds :-) You can obtain blessings in a number of ways in the church.
Richard, Trying to join the church just so you can gain access to some records while sitting at home probably is not the right way to go, especially when nearly all of the restricted records are viewable at a church Family History Center :-)
However, if you ARE interested in learning more about the church, there is a mass of information online such as everything at LDS.org, and the "Mormon Channel" on YouTube.
The church does not really provide anyone with physical benefits based on the donations that they make. The Benefits in general are all spiritual in nature.
When it comes to Family History research, the benefits of being a member is mainly a convenience thing. In general most of what members see, non-members can see too although they may have to attend a FHC to gain access. There are some things that currently even members have to attend a FHC to access them. It's all about the dozens and dozens of contracts that are currently in place with data providers and their legacy ruling on how access was to be allowed and restricted.0 -
Richard Famiglietti said: While I knew the church would allow parishioners access to the records. I had also thought there was a subscription plan for non church members to be able to access records. This is what I was referring to. If I have inadvertently offended anyone, I am truly sorry.0
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Jeff Wiseman said: No offensive whatsoever!! The church's intents and goals in the FamilyTree is to create the Family Tree of Man in as speedy and accurate a fashion as possible. That is why it is a collaborative approach that puts many more eyes onto the same records to allow them to be improved quickly.
The church is really not so much providing a "service" to those who are using the facilities, it is more of them providing the tools so that we all can become more family oriented and build the tree.
It's non-profit for that reason, and that is why there are no fees involved to ANYONE (member or otherwise) with a free account on FamilySearch. When people used to order films from Family History Centers, there was a small non-profit charge to cover just the shipping of the films, but it's all digital and you can just go to the FHC and see it online there now.
Also because they are all digital, many of them now have contracts with the image owners that allow them to be viewed outside of the FHCs. Some differences in convenience sometimes do exist here where non-members might only be able to view certain images at a FHC. However, there are some images that even now, I still have to go to the FHC to view, but in general, they are not that common for the work I'm doing. Others can run into it more often depending on the areas they are researching and whether or not they are members.
Also, although I've not seen it myself, I have heard of rare cases where non-members cannot view images even at the FHC. However even members cannot view some images anywhere (although anyone CAN see and attach the indexes for those images).0
This discussion has been closed.