Modification Request: Please Improve The Explanations About Standardization

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: In Ron Tanner’s Facebook Q&A Session ( https://www.facebook.com/familyhistor... ) at 38:58 he discusses the standardization of place names in Family Tree and states “this question has been coming up a lot lately ... and people are confused about what ‘standardize’ means...” He then discusses the two entry method that family tree uses and that the displayed place name does not have to be the same as the standardized place name and that it often cannot be because of the incompleteness of the place name database. He even mentioned that for some locations in the world, the standardized version of a place name contains only the country name.

There is a good reason as to why people are confused which I have discovered recently in doing a bit of exploring. Simply stated, I cannot find anywhere on the FamilySearch site an adequate explanation of how to correctly enter place names. New user have to just figure this out on their own and because this is a unique feature to Family Tree, many people apparently never do.

The problem will be outlined in the following posts so this does not become too long.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: When entering a place name, the most obvious place to look for help is right there in the edit box using the information icon:



The instruction here reads as if one must enter the place name exactly as found in the drop down list of standardized possibilities for what you are entering. It gives no indication of the rich variety of possible variant spellings, variant formats, and addition information that can be used in the place name field that can be linked to the separate standardized version that will be in the second place name field that will appear after the name entered.

It would be beneficial if this oversimplified help statement were changed to something like:

“Enter the full place name with appropriate format and spelling for the time period and make sure it is linked to the correct standardized version. For example:

• Norge (standardized version will display as Norway when website is set to English)

• Skaanevig, Hordaland, Norge (standardized version will display as Skånevik, Hordaland, Norway)

• Bergestvedt, Skaanevig, Hordaland, Norge (standardized version will display as Bergestveit, Skånevik, Hordaland, Norway)

• Bergesnæs, Bergestvedt, Skaanevig, Hordaland, Norge (standardized version will display as Bergestveit, Skånevik, Hordaland, Norway)

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: Clearly, the next place to check on how to enter a place name would be at the link “Learn more about standardizing places” (https://www.familysearch.org/help/sal... ) in the above information box. Going there one reads much about the importance of entering standardized place names but no information about how this term is used in Family Tree and no explanations about the benefit of the dual place name entry system.

There is the somewhat cryptic:

“As you type, the system displays the available standards. Click the correct one.
• To select no standard, click the mouse somewhere else on the screen.
• To keep what you typed, click the first item on the standards list. Family Tree selects a standard if it can.”

This implies that one should always click on an available standard if at all possible. It does not really explain why one has and needs the option to “keep what you typed” or that Family Tree will almost always select the correct standard for what you type in.

Even worse in this article is the statement:

“ • If the correct standard is not available, type the place as you want it to be recorded, type a space, and then type a version of the place-name that can be standardized. This may be the modern-day place-name or the name of the county, state, province, or country where it is currently located.”

This suggests that the correct way to enter a historically correct spelling variant which is included in the place name database is “Bergestvedt, Skaanevig, Hordaland, Norway [space] Bergestveit, Skånevik, Hordaland, Norway” which is not what one does at all.

This article also does not mention anywhere that one can add as many smaller place divisions as needed in front of a standardized place name and that this will still standardize just fine. For example "1723 North 30th Street, Mullvainey, Laurel, Yellowstone, Montana" will standardize just fine as "Laurel, Yellowstone, Montana" and can be added that way to have a full place description.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: The third place users have quick access to learn about entering place names is the lightbulb icon in the lower right corner. If I click on it and choose “Add or Edit Information” and follow the guides to add a birth place I come to here:



This clearly implies that my only option is to select a name from the list of possible matches.

There is no recommendation to keep typing the complete place name if I want to use a historically correct name or spelling variant or that I can click in the grey top line of the list to keep that spelling or that I can include a village name for areas in which only the county is currently included in the place name database.

Reworking these three help sections to reflect how Family Tree actually works would really help end the confusion that exists regarding appropriate place name entry.

LegacyUser

Jennifer Jeffris said: Additional question about place names: someone who entered the 1935 census in Illinois put in "Same House" as the place name. It appears over and over again in my records. I interpret that to mean they were in the same house in 1935 as in 1930. But sometimes i think it might mean same house as in 1940, because it looks like the same person did those and maybe did them in opposite order? Does anyone know about this or why or what it means for sure? Thanks!

LegacyUser

Lundgren said: This probably came from someone attaching sources from the 1940 census. The source linker does not put into place from 1940 in the 1935 place when the census says same place. It just uses the same place text. The way the system is today you have to fix it after wards.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: There is definitely a problem with the instructions that are provided for place names. These need to be reviewed by people who often do not find what they enter in the standards list.

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: The "same house" text comes from the 1940 census form and is entered against the 1935 house. Therefore(?) it means that the 1935 house is the same as that in 1940. (Or same place)

What people must not do is enter the text "Same House" or "Same Place" as the place-name. But they do - another thing that needs to be explained.

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: The presence of a pin marker indicates (unless it's changed very recently) that the display name = the standard name. It nudges people into thinking that the two should match. There is at least one other thread in GetSat suggesting that the pin is at the very least pointless and, at worst, downright dangerously misleading. If the pin is to continue then it needs to be explained.

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: Being even more basic - in those texts that Gordon has found - is there at any point an explanation of what Standardising is actually for? And what the Display values are for? If those ideas were established first, surely some of the stuff would be more easily understood?

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: I like to refer to adding the street details to the standard as "decorating" the standard value. It might, or might not, be a useful term.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: Since every grain of sand on the earth cannot be given a fully detailed "standard", The standard values get you down to a reasonable closeness. The extra information simply takes the standard the rest of the way.

This is a great compromise in how the standard places work! An address on a given street, a Cemetery or Hospital name, or even a manual description of the details are ALL USEFUL PARTS OF THE LOCATION. They should not be split up, but they should DEFINITELY have an obvious description of how they work somewhere.

The prevalent thinking that a person should be able to figure out how to use the FamilyTree by simply looking at the way it is laid out, and the names and terminology being used in it, has been proven over and over again to be ineffective for these types of issues. Yea, it's no wonder people keep asking about it. and any knowledge articles on it are difficult to find (assuming a person knows to go looking for them)

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: NB - at least one other piece of software that I use has standard place names but they refer specifically to today's place names - it's done so that the places may be located on maps. So there needs to be an explanation in FSFT of the fact that standard place names here can cover a wide period.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: With the explanation being that you need the modern name to find it on the map but you need the historical name to find it in the records.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: Here is an example of the current confusion. Over in the Communities section of FamilySearch I was trying to help someone determine the correct parents for an individual. I mentioned that it was important to include full place names to keep from getting confused.

Basically, if you have Mari Olsdatter born in Land, Oppland, Norway in 1807 and Mari Olsdatter born in Land, Oppland, Norway in 1807, it's hard to remember who is who. It's much easier to have Mari Olsdatter born at Bergeseie, Land, Oppland, Norway in 1807 and Mari Olsdatter born at Nordbyeeie, Land, Oppland, Norway in 1807.

Her reply was "I have put Farm names in but it seems that FS doesn't recognize them so stopped doing that but will them again."

So I gave her a quick explanation of correct display place names vs standardized place names.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: People don't usually do it, the source linker does. But with all the index files for the 1940 census having those fields (i.e., your place of residence on 1 April 1935) copied directly from the census, you really just have to update them manually.

Anyplace that you see "Same house" or "Same place" in the FSFT, somebody has just not completely entered all of the location information correctly.

For example, in the 1935 -1940 timeframe people living tin towns will usually have their street and street number recorded in the census, but the census only copies the general ward number, etc. over to the FT when attached with the source linker. If the 1935 fields say "Same house", it should have the exact same address as listed for the 1940 Census in it. If it says "same place", it should have the exact same town/village etc., but without the street address.

These details are usually left out by many people when source linking in references to the 1940 census, but they can be very useful when included. The following is a list of residences taken from censuses for my grandfather. He built 3 different houses on the same street, and lived in each one of them for a time. After his divorce, he left the first house to his wife, and he moved in across the street in the latest home he had finished:

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: And of course, the the FSFT, *BOTH* the modern and historical name will let you find it on a map...at least that is the direction we are heading (and I like that).

LegacyUser

David Newton said: Ancestry automatically altered Same House and Same Place to the appropriate values in their transcription. It should not have been beyond the wit of Familysearch to do the same.