What is the easiest way to convince someone that deliberately entering duplicates is against FamilyS

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: I have posted about this before and continue to struggle with huge numbers of duplicates being entered by another user. I have tried my best to befriend him and help him but he refuses to believe that his entering of duplicates is a problem. We are likely talking about thousands of duplicates here hundreds of which I have merged.

I have tried many times to get FamilySearch management to communicate with him about the problem in a way that would get him to stop doing it but so far I have had no luck with that. Spending all of my research time merging his duplicates is really sucking the joy out of the work.

Does anyone know where I can find the most direct plain statement that entering individuals without regard to whether or not they are duplicates is against the rules or policy? I would appreciate any help I can get on this from other users or FamilySearch personnel. Any ideas?

Here are some recent communications with him:
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1 September 2019
6:36 PM
Hi Name Withheld,

You continue to enter many duplicates. Here is an instance where you have created 5 dupes of the same person. This creates problems with the FamilySearch database.

You previously stated, “I will return to my data later to do all sealings and family relationships, which I have, at which time duplicates will be eliminated.”

That is not happening and you have created many hundreds of duplicates. I assume you are adding people as unconnected persons or just ignoring the system when it warns there is a potential duplicate. This degrades database quality.

Won’t you please consider entering people into FS the correct way? Any Family History volunteer in your ward can show you how to avoid entering duplicates. Could you do that? I would really appreciate it very much.

Matts Mattsson Katternö
GM59-V13
29 March 1730 – 28 August 1807
Modified
13 January 2019 by Name Withheld

Matts Mattsson Katternö
LY26-282
29 March 1730 – 28 August 1807
Modified
4 January 2018 by Name Withheld

Matts Mattsson Katternö
GSVJ-Q2K
29 March 1730 – 28 August 1807
Modified
30 July 2019 by Name Withheld

Matts Mattsson Katternö
GSY6-GDL
29 March 1730 – 28 August 1807
Modified
1 September 2019 by Name Withheld

Matts Mattsson Katternö
G9LD-YDG
29 March 1730 – 28 August 1807
Modified
17 April 2019 by Name Withheld

5 September 2019

Name Withheld 6:24 AM
Have carefully reviewed my procedures with senior technician at family search which they agreed was correct. They will review software issues. This has been reported before. I have been advised to continue entering as individuals.

Many thanks.

Name Withheld

4 February 2020
3:03 PM
Hi Name Withheld,
I hope your surgery went well and you were able to make it to Finland. I really wanted to come by to see you in December but I had too much back pain to do much when we were in SLC.

Would you please take a look at:

Anna Mattsdotter Pettil
6 May 1777 – 24 April 1829 • LRJH-4YW

I think we need to figure out what causes you to continue entering dupes. Perhaps there is a short coming in Roots Magic that limits your ability to see that what you are entering is already there. If that is the case, then maybe you should consider switching to Ancestral Quest. I spent quite a lot of time cleaning up this family a while back but not there are lots of dupes again for this family and their children's families. Dupes are a huge problem. Family Search was created to help eliminate dupes. Please keep in mind that anyone born before 1856 in Narpes parrish is already in the system and you need to use the "Find" feature to look for them instead of entering them again. Use care when merging your duplicate entries so that you do not over write what is already on the system. If you have differing information then please enter it using the "Other Information" feature. I made some of these same mistakes and created a huge number of dupes before I learned about the problem. I spent 6 months going back and checking all of my work and eliminating the dupes I had created. Would you please consider going back over your entries and checking for dupes? I would really appreciate it. I have spent so much time merging your dupes. I got so frustrated and disheartened with the problem that I had to walk away from genealogy for a few months last fall. I am disabled and, along with others, have tried to construct our family tree with great care. Since I cannot work at a regular job, I guess this has become an essential part of my life. Please consider suspending the entry of new data until you review what you have already entered and figure out a way to prevent entering dupes in the future. That is a big "ask" on my part. Please forgive me if I am over stepping my bounds on this. I hope you are having a great new year!

-Mark

6 February 2020
Name Withheld 4:01 PM
Hi Mark,

Had a long conversation today with an expert at Family Search on Finnish Genealogy. My data is being generated by a Finnish genealogist in Finland, someone who has done this his whole life. His parents and grandparents were also life long genealogists. I have been asked to inquire from whence your data comes.
Finnish genealogy is complex for a variety of unique reasons. Do all the differences need to resolved now. The expert at family search suggested that all differences will be resolved with time. Where are you getting your data?

Name Withheld

6:15 PM
Hi Name Withheld,

I get most of my data these days from primary sources like Church communion books and the Hiskki database.
I have paid for a membership in Finland's Family History Association (see: http://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/index...) where I get access to the image database for church records.

Previously I used the compiled genealogies put together by the "Närpes Sräktforskare" which is part of the Närpes Historical Society along with a compiled genealogy by Runar Franzén titled "Från Lövånger Till Svenska Österbotten Urmakaren Nils Wallin’s Ättlingar". The Närpes Sräktforskare is comprised of these individuals:
Jörgen Wickman, Anders Wester, Anna Greggas,
Leif Granfors, Ervi Sjörund, Horger Juth

The quality of your data is good. The problem is that you are so often entering exactly the same data that already exists. Many times, I have found that you have entered the same people over and over again (sometimes 4 or 5 times). The number of dupes you have entered is huge and a real problem. I know that is hard to hear but I am just being honest.

You asked, "Do all the differences need to resolved now". Yes, for 2 reasons. First, The FamilySearch system is getting better at spotting duplicates and suspending any pending requested and shared temple work until the duplication problem is resolved by someone reviewing and merging the dupes. Merging records is time consuming and does not happen automatically. So this means that the duplicate entries are actually delaying individuals from having their temple work done.

Secondly, the duplicates may go undetected and end up getting their work done. This is a real problem because it is a waste of temple resources and a waste of time for temple patrons. This is a big deal. It is very important that we do everything we can to avoid entering duplicates. Everyone at FamilySearch knows this.

You wrote, “The expert at family search suggested that all differences will be resolved with time”. I would really appreciate the opportunity to contact this person and discuss things with them. Can I please have their contact info?

Best Regards,
-Mark

7 February 2020
Name Withheld 6:46 AM

Thank you for this excellent response. Why does Family Search reject a vast number of names as duplicates or where work has been done and accept others that may be duplicates?

Name Withheld
Name Withheld 12:22 PM
Another long conversation with Family Search. I do not submit anything unless the indication appears that no ordinances are done for such person. When I submit I give all ordinances to the Global Temple Pool to be done with as the church sees fit. No cards are printed. Duplicate ordinances sometimes can occur if cars are printed, held for a while and than processed, according to Family Search. These names are the possession of the church. You may merge according to family search but it is not my responsibility to merge once given to the church. I am very sorry for the difficulty that is created for your tree but ordinances are only done for the first submission.

Name Withheld

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LegacyUser

Brett said: Mark

There is no EASY way; especially, if they do not want to, hear; or, know.

Hopefully, this post of your will be noticed by someone from "FamilySearch" (ie. an "Official 'FamilySearch' Representative") who WILL contact you DIRECTLY (and, 'Privately').

Brett

.

LegacyUser

joe martel said: Other than some older talks I'm not aware of any stated policy or help articles or rules that talk about reducing duplication. Maybe I missed them? I know it is a goal but the desire is that the users work it out, otherwise support would be overwhelmed with analysis and siding with one user over another.

There are features and quality checks that deal with identifying, finding, and handling duplicates.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: I haven't checked lately, but it would be something that could be used if the Church would provide a clear statement along the lines of the following

FamilySearch Family Tree is a single tree for all mankind. As such each and every deceased person should be recorded just once and where possible, connected with their family -- that is their parents, spouse(s), siblings, and children. There are features and quality checks that deal with identifying, finding, and handling duplicates.

When you add a person to the massive tree, please look for existing records for the person your are adding and do not create a duplicate record.

The phrasing could be better, but if there was a clear statement somewhere on the site, it would be a big help, even if it is found in the FS Wiki.

Credit Joe Martel for the last sentence in the first paragraph.

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: Hi Joe, Thanks for the reply. The user says that he has contacted FS and has been told that what he is doing is fine. He is adding people as unconnected persons and ignoring those "features and quality checks that deal with identifying, finding, and handling duplicates."

This is just a case of severely misusing the system. I have tried to explain the problem with duplicates many times but I lack the credibility to persuade him since someone at FS has told him that the dupes are ok and will be taken care of within the system.

He is a good guy but hard to convince. It would be helpful if you would clearly explain whether or not it is a users responsibility to use the system properly to avoid creating duplicates. Or is it OK for him to continue creating his own personal family tree on FS and FS just does not really care about duplicates? If anyone at FS would just take the time to clearly explain things on this thread then I could just send him a link that would bring him here so he can read it himself.

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: Thanks Tom. Based on President Hinckley's statement in 2005, it seem like FamilySearch was created to help eliminate duplication. It would be great if there was something like what you wrote. Do you know of any tutorials done by FS that might explain the importance of avoiding entering an individual who is already in the system?

LegacyUser

Christine said: Am I understanding that he is creating multiples and then sharing EACH of those duplicates with the temple?

I have found someone who always marked not a duplicate when they obviously were so he could do temp!e work for all those duplicates!

LegacyUser

Robert Wren said: The White Paper on which FSTree was formulated had some discussion on duplicates, research and temple work which might help explain why duplications need to minimized.

Here's a reference topic on the subject:

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

LegacyUser

Christine said: So when he adds a person he does not accept the duplicate already in the tree? I just tried to re enter my mother and her family search profile came up. To enter her as a new person I would have to wilfully deny that the other profile is her. I would have to lie.

I do not understand why that is not an intentional violation of Family Search policies. I looked up Family Search Terms of Use and there are several places where this person is potentially knowingly violating the terms: under Collaboration with others "You agree to input data accurately to the best of your knowledge. . . Please refer to the Code Of Conduct section for an outline of the possible consequences for the improper entry of data." (One is revocation of rights to use site)

In the Code of conduct section: "You agree to do nothing that might disrupt the flow of data to and from this site, impact the service or performance of this site, or circumvent any of the controls of usage rules that we have implemented."

In my opinion wilfully saying EXACT duplicates are not exact duplicates so you can add another person with no intention of merging is circumventing Family Search controls.

Just my humble (or not so humble) opinion

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: Hi Christine, I agree that it is a violation in the terms of use but I don't know if FS management sees it that way. I think they should. In pres. Hinckley's 2005 talk he is pretty clear that duplication of names is a big problem which the Church was going to solve with technology. I believe FS is supposed to be that solution he was talking about. If so, then why wouldn't someone at FS take just a few minutes to contact this user and kindly explain this to him? The user enters the exact same information that exists on the database but he enters people as unconnected individuals so that may affect how well the system recognizes duplication. He also fails to give a country name but I think the system still recognizes the duplicate. He uses Roots Magic. I have explained that FS is not meant to be used that way and why it is a problem. I have also explained that FS is a collaborative effort and is not supposed to be used to build his own separate family tree. He just does not believe me. He says he has talked to FS and they approve of what he is doing. We are on pleasant terms and I do not want to alienate him in any way but surely what he is doing is detrimental to the FS database. He just needs to hear it from someone at FS.

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: Thanks Robert. That is good stuff but it is wide ranging. Need to find something that plainly states what users must not do in order to avoid duplication. But I think he will not stop until someone at FS takes a few minutes to contact him and kindly explain why what he is doing is a problem.

LegacyUser

Shanna Jones said: Here is one Help Center Article that may help:

https://www.familysearch.org/help/sal...

and this one:

https://www.familysearch.org/help/sal...

You need to be signed in to be able to read them.

LegacyUser

Mark David Harless said: Bingo! Thanks Shanna. Those are the kinds of statements I was looking for. I will forward them to the user. Many thanks for sharing.