Show relationship as well as tree.

LegacyUser

Stanton Bloom said: Please modify "reltionship" selection in windows program to show the relationship as well as the tree representation as it does in the phone app.

LegacyUser

A van Helsdingen said: See: https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

LegacyUser

Brett said: Stanton

Firstly, "Welcome" to this "FamilySearch" ( "GetStaisfaction" ) 'Feedback' Forum.

Secondly, "Official 'FamilySearch' Representatives", do monitor; and, sometimes, participate in, this Forum.

Thirdly, I am just another User/Patron, just like yourself (and, happen to be a Member of the Church).

Many Users/Patrons who regularly participate in this Forum who have a great deal of knowledge and experience with "FamilySearch", like to assist/help other Users/Patrons like yourself.

Finally, you are not alone.

The requested enhancement to include the "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" of the "Web" version of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch", like in the "Mobile" Application of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch", is an oft requested in this Forum.

We have been advised in previous posts in this Forum by "Official 'FamilySearch' Representatives" that the additional feature of a "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" of the "Web" version of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch" has NOT yet been implemented in the "Web" version, like the "Mobile" Application; because, the "Web" version manages/maintains many "Languages" (as opposed the the "Mobile" Application version); and, there appears to be 'Translation' problems/issues with regard to some "Words"/"Terms" with regard to some of the many "Languages".

But ...
That said ...

Now, we have also been advised in previous post in this Forum by "Official 'FamilySearch' Representatives" that the additional feature of a "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" of the "Web" version of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch" is coming; but, most likely, only in "English", to start with ...

We just need to be patient - easier said than done - I know - I am not a patient person.

Here are just some of the previous post, for some 'light' reading:

As indicated by 'A van Helsdingen' in the previous "Reply"
Real relation to ancestors ... [ from just 1 Day ago ]
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

View my Relationship (add relationship titles) ... [ from 5 Months ago ]
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

Add name and relationship headline text to "Relationship" popup window of "View My Relationship" in Family Search program (Windows version) ... [ from 8 Months ago ]
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

View My Relationship ... [ from 9 Months ago ]
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

I hope this helps.

Brett

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: Just a quick clarification in regards to this excerpt:

'because, the "Web" version manages/maintains many "Languages" (as opposed the the "Mobile" Application version)'

The mobile applications are currently in 10 languages, and shortly will be translated into another 16 or more. So the translation issue affects the mobile apps, too.

In regards to the relationship description (e.g., "second cousin once removed"), it was first done in English for the Android Tree app, and then was moved to a service where it was available for both Android and iOS apps. It was eventually made available in Spanish. In all the other languages, the relationship description is simply not shown.

It's a challenge to implement relationship descriptions in various languages -- it's not just a translation issue, but different languages have different ways to describe relationships. For example, in Swedish you can't simply say "great grandfather" but you have to know that it is your mother's father's father so you can say morfarfar, whereas your father's mother's father would be farmorfar. Other languages have their own intricacies.

I imagine FamilySearch will eventually develop relationship descriptions in more languages, and make them available on more platforms, but each one will have to be engineered individually. I am not privy to any specific plans in that area.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Alan

'Thank You' for that clarification.

And, if I remember; as, the "Mobile" Application was originally only in "English" and the 'Design' and 'Development' of the "Mobile" Application is independent/autonomous to the "Web" version, to some degree, it was appropriate and easy to add/include the "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" in the "Mobile" Application.

Many Users/Patrons, are NOT aware; and, do not understand, WHY the "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" appears in the "Mobile" Application; and, yet, does not appear in the "Web" version.

Of course, one reason for this is that there are many, many Users/Patrons who only use "English" language version of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch"; and, many of those, either, are not aware; or, do not understand, that there are many, many OTHER Users/Patrons who do not use "English" language version; but, in fact, use the many "Other" language versions of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch".

Brett

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LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: You're correct that the development of the mobile apps does have some degree of independence from the development cycle of the web applications, although they are also interconnected in many ways.

But it is not the case that the mobile apps were developed just in English. Actually, the mobile apps have been available in 10 languages almost from the beginning. They were certainly available in all those languages long before the relationship title was first implemented on Android. The Android Family Tree app is used by many non-English speakers -- over 40% of its installations are in languages other than English and that percentage is increasing over time.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: Alan,

FamilySearch representatives have been very specific as to why the relationship text will only be developed in English

Not all languages have terms that fit the relationship -- many do, but there are some that do not and FamilySearch is set to accommodate a number of languages, many of which do not even use latin/roman characters.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Alan

Interesting.

I was under the understanding, through previous post in this Forum, that the "Mobile" Application was originally designed and developed in "English"; and, then, "Spanish"; whereas, other languages have subsequently bee included.

And, I was certainly NOT aware that the "Mobile" Application was " ... available in x10 languages almost from the beginning ... ", news to me.

But; then, even though I was a User/Patron of the "Mobile" Application" from the beginning, I was NOT an avid User/Patron of the "Mobile" Application.

'Wow' ... even more enlightening that the "Mobile" Application was available in those x10 languages; before, the "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" was released in the "Mobile" Application for "Android" mobiles. I do not use "Apple" mobiles, is the "Title" (ie. name) of a "Relationship" in the "View My Relationship" available in the "Mobile" Application for "Apple" mobiles? (I would suspect so, by now!).

'Yes', I certainly would have suspected that " ... over 40% of its installations are in languages other than English and that percentage is increasing over time ...".

Many "English" (especially, from the USA) Users/Patrons (especially, those new to this Forum) do not seem to comprehend that the Church is a World wide Church; and, hence, the use of "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch" is in many languages, other than just "English".

Brett

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: @Tom Huber: I'd be interested in your source for your statement "FamilySearch representatives have been very specific as to why the relationship text will only be developed in English."

The relationship text is available in Spanish in the mobile apps in some contexts already, so whoever said it would "only be developed in English" was clearly wrong.

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: @Brett: The relationship title was shown in the iOS mobile app starting in May 2017, just a couple of months after it was shown in the Android app. I wrote the code to generate the relationship title first for Android, but it was soon afterwards moved to a service that can be accessed by both Android and iOS and that's where it has been maintained ever since. So when the relationship titles became available in Spanish for the Relatives Around Me and Relatives at RootsTech features, it was immediately visible in both Android and iOS apps at the same time.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: This was expressed in another message thread. I don't have the link to that thread, but it was by a FamilySearch person involved with development and was provided because of the many requests. They mentioned that one of the problems is that not all languages have equivalent relationship terms. They were not specific as to which languages were impacted.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: From Ron Tanner's July 25 2019 "Live" Q&A Facebook session. I cited Gordon Collett:

Ron Tanner stated in his July 25 Facebook Q&A that the main hold up for this feature had been coming up with a way to show relationships in all of the languages which FamilySearch supports. They have determined that this is basically impossible at this point due to terms for these relationships ranging from too complex to nonexistent and so will be releasing this feature in only English in the near future.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: Session: https://www.facebook.com/familyhistor... (you do not need to be logged in or a member of Facebook to view the session. Ron gets a little "homey" at times...)

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: The mobile apps are immaterial and do not have to cover the range of languages needed by the web site.

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: Just as a further insight - maybe. Terms aren't always consistent across English - for instance, is it grand-aunt or great-aunt? Then there's the issue of half-cousins - genealogy blogger Dick Eastman likes to say, every once in a while, that there is no such thing as a half-cousin - they're all cousins, he says, citing Black's Law Dictionary. I like to reply that Black's Law Dictionary is (a) a legal dictionary not a genealogical standard and (b) American anyway!

And then there's the concept of the parents-in-law of your child. Quite often the two sets of parents of a couple are close - but there's no term in English for this relationship. However, if I recall correctly, there is such a term in Hebrew.

It looks so easy but it's one of these things that have hidden depths.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Alan

FYI

As far as I am aware, the '@'; symbol DOES NOT work in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum like it does in the "Community.FamilySearch" Forum.

If you "Reply" or "Comment" in a post in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum, you get a "E-mail" of any subsequent "Replies" or "Comments".

Whereas, if you do not "Reply" or "Comment" in a post in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum; but, instead, just "Star" it as you "Like" it, you must also "Tick" that you want up-dates, to get a "E-mail" of any subsequent "Replies" or "Comments".

Brett

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LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: @Brett, I'm fully aware that @ doesn't do anything special in GetSatisfaction. But on many sites, it's a convention for indicating that you're directing a post at a particular user. Since there were comments in this discussion that I was directing at different users, I used that notation.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Alan

I am sorry, I guess I should just give it away ...

As, I am NOT interested in any other 'Sites'; nor, conventions in other 'Sites' ...

As usual, not being helpful ...

I will try and not get involved in the future ...

Brett

The 'Uncivil', optimistic pessimist

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LegacyUser

David Newton said: Ah so something that improves the clarity of to whom a comment is addressed and is an almost-universally understood convention online is "unhelpful". Got it. Why am I not surprised you expressed that sentiment?

LegacyUser

Brett said: David

You must remember that many who participate in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum do not have "Programming" backgrounds, like yourself and a number of other of the regular participants.

We are NOT interested in such "... almost-universally understood... " on-line CONVENTION.

Plus, I would definitely say that in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum, the "Convention" of @[Name; or, whatever], DOES NOT improve the clarity of to whom a "Response" is addressed.

We have not needed it up to now in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum; so, WHY start?

If we have to use them, like we do in the "Community.FamilySearch" Forum; then, so be it, we do.

I have not seen such "Convention" used to any noticeable degree in this "FamilySearch" ("GetSatisfaction") 'Feedback' Forum; and, I hope I never do.

I am also not surprised by your sentiment either; but, 'such is life'.

Brett

LegacyUser

Paul said: Agree with you, Brett. The @ and # symbols certainly have their place in social media, etc., but that place doesn't include this forum.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Paul
'Thank You'.
Brett

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: Getting back to the actual topic of this discussion....

Tom Huber, thanks for providing the quote from Ron Tanner. I can see now that he said "... will be releasing this feature in only English in the near future." He was clearly talking only about the website (not the mobile apps) and only restricted his statement about English to "the near future." So there's no inconsistency.

I'm sure there will be support for other languages at some time in the future on both the website and the mobile apps. I'm also sure that FamilySearch will never support relationship titles in all languages, but it's all a matter of priorities as to which languages are supported when.

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: Adrian Bruce,

Thanks for your comment: "Terms aren't always consistent across English - for instance, is it grand-aunt or great-aunt? "

Yes, that's a tricky one. I researched it and discussed it with my product manager. There's no easy answer, since some people call the sister of my grandfather my grand-aunt, and others call her my great-aunt. And then the sister of my great-grandfather would be called my great-aunt in the first case, but my great-great-aunt in the second case. We had to make a decision, which clearly would not make everyone happy, so we went with calling my grandfather's sister "great-aunt", with all the associated relationships following that pattern.

As for half-cousins, we chose to take the simpler route and just call them all cousins. Some people even like to call out double cousins (where siblings marry siblings, so the children of those two couples have cousin relationships through both parents). But again, we took the simple route of just calling them cousins. Even if we don't match every expectation of every user, we hope it's generally helpful.

And in addition to quirks, regional differences, etc. in English, we run into another whole array of quirks and differences in each language we choose to implement. That's life with software engineering in the realm of genealogy across many languages!

LegacyUser

Adrian Bruce said: "some people call the sister of my grandfather my grand-aunt, and others call her my great-aunt"
Yes, I thought it was regional since the first grand-aunts I came across were in Scotland but it seems to vary across all the UK.

"And then the sister of my great-grandfather would be called my great-aunt in the first case, but my great-great-aunt in the second case."
Interesting. I have never seen the sister of my great-grandfather called anything other than great-grand-aunt or great-great-aunt. But I have seen people say that others call her a great-aunt. If you follow the distinction.

I would agree with your "call them all cousins" approach, by the way. People will understand it, even if they use other terms themselves.

LegacyUser

Alan E. Brown said: Adrian, you're correct about the great-grand-aunt -- for those who use the term grand-aunt, that's clearly the next generation back. Sorry for my mistake, and thanks for the clarification.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Stanton

Web version.
View My Relationship.
Relationship Title (English, at least).
IT IS THERE!

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

Brett

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