What if were not related to people in the "Family Tree," can I still do Temple Ordinances for them?
edited September 28, 2020 in Suggest an Idea
Don M Thomas said: There is a male person in the "Family Tree" that was born 1638 in Argentina. His name was entered into the "Family Tree" on 24 May 2012 and no one had done his Endowment or Sealing to Parents yet. Can I do his Endowment and Sealing to Parents?
joe martel said: Whats the PID? 2012 is probably an migration from nFS to FT.0
Don M Thomas said: His PID is KZHX-YTB.
joe martel said: It depends on you and what counsel, policy you choose to work by. Personally if I was related I would first verify the info. I think I would want to know how I was related, my connection to this Person. I would start with trying to find Sources for this Person to prove they were real. This Person was probably in nFS so might be some research to do. Try looking for records at Partner sites, or moving up a generation and doing that for children, grand children.0
Don M Thomas said: I am not related and have not done any work - genealogy on this person. My niece had done Initiatory today, being assigned his mother's (Juana Saldivar) Initiatory, in the Oquirrh Mountain Temple. My niece was impressed so much that she asked if she could also come back and do the Endowment. Here is the text she sent me.
Hi Uncle Don,
I did initiatory tonight. Just a sheet of Temple names. The last lady I did I felt a real connection to and asked if I could take her name on and do the endowment. They said I couldn't because she was just a random name. They said I could try and search her and print her name card out and that way I could do it. I don't have a lot of info, but thought I would see if you could find her.
Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
I looked and found her (Juana Saldivar) KDQ1-RXQ in the "Family Tree" but also found a duplicate (Juana Saldivar) MHC9-DK8, and it was the duplicate (Juana Saldivar) MHC9-DK8 that my niece was doing the Initiatory for.
I pointed out to my niece that there were two (Juana Saldivar) in the "Family Tree" and they needed to be merged. She still wanted to do the Endowment for the duplicate.
I then got this message or text from her.
"The first name with all her kids, her first son Manuel De Aguilera needs his Endowment. You can do that and then you and I can seal to his parents if you want.
Maybe I felt that connection so I would look her up and then realized her son needs his work done. But I'll still do the Endowment just in case.
I prayed about it and feel like you can merge her accounts. I think her son needed to be found to have his Endowment and Sealing to his Parents done.
I then merged the duplicate (Juana Saldivar) MHC9-DK8 into the (Juana Saldivar) KDQ1-RXQ who had all her Temple Ordinances done.
I then sent a Feedback in asking if we can do Temple Ordinances for people we are not related to? I myself do not plan on doing any genealogy work on this person in that I can not read or speak Spanish.0
Tom Huber said: The policy is clear with regard to Temple work for the deceased. See https://familysearch.org/ask/salesfor... -- members will need to sign in to familysearch to see the article. Here are most of the contents of that article:
A letter from the First Presidency dated February 29, 2012, states "Our preeminent obligation is to seek out and identify our own ancestors. Those whose names are submitted for proxy temple ordinances should be related to the submitter." If you want to perform temple work for a friend or other person to whom you are not related, please contact FamilySearch by phone, chat, or email.
You are responsible to submit names of the individuals below:
Immediate family members
Direct-line ancestors (parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and so on) and their families).
You can also submit the names of the individuals below:
Biological, adoptive, and foster family lines connected to your family.
Collateral family lines (uncles, aunts, cousins, and their families).
Descendants of your ancestors.
Your own descendants.
Possible ancestors, meaning individuals who have a probable family relationship that cannot be verified because the records are inadequate, such as those who have the same last name and resided in the same area as your known ancestors.
Do not submit the individuals in the categories below unless you are related to them:
Names gathered from unapproved extraction projects.
Members can do the ordinances for Jewish Holocaust victims only under the conditions below:
They are an immediate family member of the deceased (defined as parents, spouse, children, or siblings).
Or they have permission of all living immediate family members.
Or they have the permission of the closest living relative if no immediate family members are living.
Persons Born within the Last 110 Years
To do ordinances for a deceased person who was born in the last 110 years, the requirements below must be met.
The person must be deceased for at least one year.
You must either be one of the closest living relatives, or you must obtain permission from one of the closest living relatives. If you are not a spouse, child, parent, or sibling of the deceased, please obtain permission from one of the closest living relatives before doing the ordinances. The closest living relatives are an undivorced spouse (the spouse to whom the individual was married at death), an adult child, a parent, or a brother or sister.0
Earl Marshall said: So basically, if you're not related, the answer is usually "no."0
Woody Brison said: In all of the above, the word "submit" is used numerous times, but what's the definition of it? We used to submit names via a paper form mailed into the Genealogical Society. Now, we "create individuals" on FS/FT; we reserve ordinances; we print cards; we take the cards to the Temple... which of these equates to "submit"?0
Gordon Collett said: I would say when we share with the temple or print the card. That would seem to be the closet equivalent to the old procedure of submitting (that is, sending in) a family group sheet or Temple Ready file and then waiting weeks to months to get back notification that the name had been cleared and we could proceed.
My other choice would be when we reserve a name since that is the last point at which the name is then checked and cleared for temple work.
Amazing, really, that clearing a name now takes a fraction of a second rather than months.0
Tom Huber said: Pretty much, with the exception of "Possible ancestors, meaning individuals who have a probable family relationship that cannot be verified because the records are inadequate, such as those who have the same last name and resided in the same area as your known ancestors."0
Tom Huber said: I'm not sure if by "ancestors" they mean "Possible relatives, meaning individuals who have a probable family relationship..."
There is a stuck mindset over some of the terms used. See they next post and my response.0
Tom Huber said: Yup. The mindset is stuck on certain terms, such as "submit" when "reserve" should be used, and "ancestor" when "relative" (or "person") should be used.0
Woody Brison said: Seems to me the FS/FT software should enforce any rules about who can reserve which names. In other words, if the software lets you, there's no restriction. Would that be right?0
JimGreene said: This is a reply to Don's question, but not to Don specifically. I am replying to all those who ask this question, as a group, not individually.
Family History is, above all, about family. There is not space for me to give you all of the references to the doctrine of the family. But I am sure it will take minimal research in the scriptures and talks by prophets to establish just how vital temple ordinances are not just to us but also to them, but only in the context of family. It is also very clear that family refers to those people to whom we are related. There can and will be much debate and "word-smithing" or "word-picking" about what related means. I'm not going to get dragged down that debate. I will just end by saying, that if it is not your family, if you cannot establish a relationship, then leave the sacred temple ordinances, and the tremendous blessings, to family members who will someday do the work. Do not be a blessing robber to satisfy your own selfish need.0
Tom Huber said: The software is not that sophisticated at this point in time. There are still areas that need more development before a block to reserving non-relatives could be implemented.0
JimGreene said: I need to jump in and answer Woody Brison's question, because the terminology can get confusing.
When someone finds a name that is ready (meaning per the system there is enough information to allow ordinance work to be done, and a green temple appears) and clicks on the "Request" button, this is referred to as "requesting" or "reserving" a name or an ordinance. All this does is change the status, and place the person in your temple reservation list. When you actually select the person from your list, and select the ordinances to perform and either PRINT the card or turn it over to the temple file, that is called "submitting" the name.
I hope that clarifies things for Woody and for others with the same questions.0
..." those who have the same last name and resided in the same area as your known ancestors." If there isn't enough evidence to prove they are part of my family but odds are they ARE relatives, how do I add them to my family tree, thereby making it possible for their work to be done? All I can figure is that I woudl have to guess at the relationships, and that doesn't seem right.0