Helper Locked Out of records
This is a very very serious problem that needs to cease.
Helpers are now locked out of able to see images in censuses (at least 1920 and 1950), and also a number of parish records.
Here is one without helper (me)
the next one (I am using helper)
How we the helpers can help if we are locked out?
Best Answer
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I cannot replicate the problem either. IF you can see the status bar in Edge, copy only the part of the URL before the question mark and paste it into a new tab or window.
Then you should be able to see the census page in the old familiar view.
What you probably see:
All you need:
Or, if you want - here's the short URL which you can copy and paste to see the page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6Q77-7NN
Good luck!
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Answers
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@W D Samuelsen contact me please
Good catch. You found this 'bug' in the new 'edit every field' app. The app as you demonstrate is currently meant to carefully record edits by the logged in account - not a helper. I guess they'll have to consider whether or not to add helper functionality to the new indexing app (the old indexing app never had such functionality - probably for the same reason.)
Helper indexers would be a great help.
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Genthusiast,
These records were ALREADY indexed and made open. 1920 census was indexed long time ago, locked out the helpers now.
As helpers we DO NEED TO LOOK CLOSELY at the images in order to be able to assist.
Even the staff and missionaries at the FSL were stunned to be LOCKED OUT like this.
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@W D Samuelsen contact me please
Yes, they were already indexed but now since moving to the new 'edit every field' app (as your first picture shows) - the opportunity to reindex is available - and it is probably the reason you are not able to view it as a Helper.
As work-arounds - since your first picture did not include pertinent information:
- I went on the hunt for the image which I believe you should be able to view as a Helper. I am pretty sure the engineers can either link the two and detect your Helper account and make it able to view the image (by parsing out the intervening index reference)- but perhaps not the 'edit every field' indexing app view. Perhaps they will need to link the Group Data Image and not the Image Index image when attaching to Tree - or else hand off to the relevant image viewer when detecting Helper piggyback.
- you can find the Image if you are unable to access it (as I did).
- you can have two browser/Familysearch sessions going - one as a helper, one as yourself - so that you can browse the attached sources.
Again great catch of a bug - working as designed! Hopefully this sort of explanation can reduce the stun.
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Genthusiast
Yes I did say, when I am not in helper mode I can pull up closer the image and when I am in helper mode I can't pull up at all. I looked around for another way and there wasn't any way.
I came across this problem few times when I was in helper mode to help somebody else. All I could do was enough is enough. I remember few times the index information was all correct in helper mode but still can't pull up closer.
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I looked around for another way and there wasn't any way.
I just gave you 3 work-arounds to try - if you have the same problem again. But likely the engineers will fix it before too long.
I just tested it out. Options 1 & 2 work while in Helper.
Yep option # 2 worked - which implies option #1 will work (parsing the addressed worked too).
Option #3 worked. You either need to have two browser accounts or use the Guest account OR use a different browser than the one you are Helper in (Chrome, Edge, Firefox).
Work-around Option #4: while on the profile you are trying to access the Source - stop helping - access the Source, view what you need or download the Source - then start helping again.
Hope that helps.
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Option 3 is out of question, NEVER ever will try Edge and Firefox wonky at time.
FamilySearch site is developed with Chrome as the number 1 browser. In fact at the FSL, Chrome is number one choice followed by Firefox. NONE shown for Edge (mostly incompatible with images.)
Option 1 - explain again, I tried - the ONLY option is to LOG OUT as helper, not acceptable when you are looking at the living persons I don't want to added in MY family, has to be in that person's who I am helping since it's her family. (Option 4 is ABSOLUTE OUT OF QUESTION FOR THIS REASON).
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@W D Samuelsen contact me please
Option #1 steps (which will probably be automatic after the engineers are through updating this evening - or let's hope so):
You attempt to go to the address while in Helper and get blocked - so you edit the address to view the image without the index by default. The index requires that the logged in account be the index editor - not a Helper logged in piggyback ...
Option #2 should also work:
You get blocked. You note the particulars of the collection, names, dates, place and either Search> Records and find it OR Search> Images and browse to it based off the DGS and other data.
Updates to the website are closing access for tonight.
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genthusiast,
Should NOT be blocked at all. I wasn't indexing. I was trying to "PULL UP CLOSER" the image. The record is already completely indexed correctly.
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I'm kinda glad that the new all-in-one tool hasn't been applied to any of the collections I work with, because what little I've seen of it has been very confusing. Calling it an "indexing app" doesn't help with that confusion. (Indexing is a completely separate activity from research. Indexing has project instructions and batches. Research involves things like search filters and film numbers.)
Not being LDS, I can't speak to the helper function's interactions with the new tool/viewer/editor/thingy, but perhaps it would help @W D Samuelsen contact me please to "translate" genthusiast's posts? Whenever it says anything about "index", interpret it as "index editing option". What it sounds like to me is that the helper function is not interfacing properly with the new viewer, because that editing option is always there, and fails to figure out what account to associate with it.
If you can get the new viewer to cough up a film number (or image group number, or DGS number, or whatever else it might be called), then I think the easiest workaround is to use the catalog's image viewer on that film. You can either go to Search - Catalog and plug the number into the Film/Fiche/... search field, or you can just plug the number directly into the URL: https://www.familysearch.org/search/film/NNN, where NNN is the (digital) film number, padded with leading zeros to nine digits.
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Is there an update on this issue or is it currently being worked on? The viewer still doesn't work in Helper Mode. I have noticed this problem for nearly a year. When I'm helping others in Helper Mode, I have to exit Helper Mode to view the census record or view the census records on Ancestry, which makes it a little tricky when assisting a guest or ward member.
Thank you for your help!
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@Lynzi Kidman Coffey, I have since figured out an easy way to get from the new viewer to the old: truncate the URL by deleting the question mark and everything after it. Does that work in Helper Mode?
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@Lynzi Kidman Coffey do you have more than one browser on your computer? Have you tried being in helper mode in one of them and just as yourself in the other? Generally being in two different browsers lets the website treat you as two different instances of yourself. I haven't tried that with one of me being in helper mode, but if it works, you should be able to copy the census page URL from one browser to the other and be able to view it.
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As many of you may have experienced, when you try to view an original census record attached to one of your family members, you get a row of tiny little thumbnail images which are IMPOSSIBLE to read. However, if you click on review links to open the source linker, and then click on Image, you get the old reliable microfilm view, complete with index, etc.
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I believe that the filmstrip-only view is the result of either a bug or a browser/connectivity problem. If the viewer page loads fully and correctly, the filmstrip is either absent, or below the fully-zoomable image. See my screenshots in my comment on Sep. 25 in this thread: https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/528287.
It would perhaps be useful for the engineers to know what browser, version, and OS people are using when they get the filmstrip-only view.
(I use Firefox, current version, in Win10, and I do not have this problem.)
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First the census images, now marriage documents of Virginia
As a helper I can not see them, they are deliberately kept too small, practically forcing us the helpers to LOG OUT as helpers in order to see the details that are overlooked or not included in indexing.
Has to do CNTL and Plus sign few times in order to see them. BUT that create another problem - when missing info is discovered and not indexed.
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We as the helpers, are still being BLOCKED, not only census and marriage records, but also all other databases employing this feature.
Remove the programming block and allow the helpers to see images and fix whatever mistakes may be of the indexes.
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This only happens when I am logged into someone else's account as a helper.
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I just logged in and tested it helping my sister, Alta Hurst, and the problem is still there. It is a system bug, not a browser problem. I am currently at one of my computers at the FamilySearch Center in Boerne, and I get this result every time I try to look at a census record from the sources of someone I am trying to help. It happens EVERY time so it should be VERY EASY for you to replicate.
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Actually, if it happens when you're in helper mode, then it is completely impossible for me to replicate, as I'm not LDS and can therefore only be the helpee, not the helper.
However, other people apparently get the filmstrip-only page even when they're not in helper mode, so there's something else going on. There's a very recent thread on it here: https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/533757#Comment_533757, and there's also the thread from a couple of months ago that I already linked in my previous comment above.
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When go to the 1916 census (Jesse Shouldice, "Canada, Prairie Provinces Census, 1916" • FamilySearch) and I click on "View Original Document," this is what I see:
I don't see any buttons to change from the grid view to the actual census page, and double clicking on the page doesn't open it. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Is this a quirk of Microsoft Edge? Is there a setting I can change to resolfe this?
Thanks.
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I have not been able to replicate it, but other people are having the same problem. Here are a few of the threads about it:
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/528287
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/534152#Comment_534152
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/533757#Comment_533757
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Thanks! The solution you recommended works.
FYI. After reading the other postings you provided, I discovered that if I exit helper mode and refresh the browser tab with the filmstrip, the image appears. If I go back into helper mode (on a separate tab) and then refresh the tab with the image, I only see the filmstrip.
Do these problems get forwarded to FamilySearch?
Thanks again for your help.
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@Andrew Moore Some of the developers are active in the Community. You'll occasionally see that one has commented or even remarked "I've opened a ticket for ...." when something needs to be fixed. There are a few groups dedicated to specific new features, such as the New Person Page where developers are available for discussion.
The issue you encountered is connected to the new Edit Everything option. There is not yet a group dedicated to that feature, but I hope there soon will be.
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@Áine Ní Donnghaile, @Stephanie V. said that the possibility of having a group for the editing tool is being discussed.
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Thanks, @Maile L. Fingers crossed.
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My husband and I are trying to help others using the Helper Resource. We can view the other person's trees and person page. When we go to the sources and try to view an image, we can't view the image. It makes it very difficult to help the person to understand how to look at some of these documents when we can't see it on our end. Is this a glitch or a permanent change?
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Unfortunately, this is a rather longstanding problem.
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I did figure out that you can right click on the Family Search green icon and choose the 3rd option of "Open in Family Search in incognito". You can then be on your own account on the incognito page where you can see put in the id number for the person on the account you are helping and then go into the sources and see the images.
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What green icon?
It's not the Trees that is a problem. It's the new image formats of census, Births, Marriages, Deaths databases.
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