GEDCOM
I have a child that was recently added to a fairly well-documented family, where the reason given to add them is GEDCOM data. GEDCOM data is also the reason given for the sex, birth year, and death year. The sources remain at "0" for this child, and I don't know how to look at the GEDCOM data to see why this person was added. I have a feeling this person doesn't really belong to this family, as there are many sources for the family (including several books), with no mention of this child. I'm thinking the child was added to the incorrect family. How do you view GEDCOM data?
Comments
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Hi @Helen Jones . You have commented about a child who was added to one of the well-documented families in your pedigree, and your concern is that there are no sources attached and that the reason statements for the various pieces of Vital Information indicate the record was added to Family Tree through a GEDCOM submission.
Even if you have not worked with a GEDCOM at FamilySearch, you might want to review the following knowledge article which explains how users copy new information into Family Tree when they have uploaded a GEDCOM. Please note that the article confirms that no sources move into Family Tree when you create a new record for someone you wish to add, and that is why you don't see sources that might explain why the contributor felt the family relationships added through their submission were correct.
While there is always controversy about working through GEDCOMS at FamilySearch, users often use this way to add a large pedigree through the comparison of a GEDCOM submission, and as you see information that verifies that is how a new record was created, you will also see the Contact Name of the contributor. Please click that link if you wish to send them a message to get more details about their submission. They may be able to direct you to the sources they have collected.
We hope the information we have provided will be helpful for you. We understand it can be frustrating when you find records without sources, but please keep in mind that any user is welcome to submit their GEDCOM and then copy new information into Family Tree, however, media and sources are not included in the new records that the contributor will create through the comparison and review process. This necessary process is used to help prevent someone from creating many duplicate records for people who are already part of the World-wide, shared FamilySearch Family Tree.
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What I usually do in this situation is simply detach the child from the family. I then try to find any historical records for the child, and attach them.
The reason for detaching is solid: family is otherwise very well sourced, this child is not found in any of those sources, and contributor who created the child's PID did not provide any sources.
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I treat “GEDCOM data” as a reason statement with no supporting evidence as the genealogical equivalent of, “because I say so”.
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The pasting software puts "GEDCOM data" in the reason statemenst. As far as I can tell, the user is not able to override "GEDCOM data" with an actual reason.
Some contributors paste in good data, others paste junk.
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GEDCOM data is generally junk. Those who use them are littering Family Tree with duplicates and unsourced dates and places. The vast majority of those who use them do not follow up to determine if they have created problems. Why do we find so many profiles in a total mess? Two big reasons: first, there are a lot of users who simply don't know what they're doing and make big mistakes like a bad merge; second, GEDCOM accounts. The LDS Church created GEDCOM accounts. It's high time that they start to rein them in. A good start would be to prohibit their use for profiles having birth dates before the 1900s. FamilySearch is becoming a very unreliable wikitree and it's a crying shame!
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@Helen Jones & @ColinCameron & @Scott Lawrence Robinson
Helen; Colin; &, Scott
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
Just in passing ...
You are not alone ...
MANY; Many; many, of us Users/Patrons really wish 'FamilySearch' would just STOP allowing the "Upload" of GEDCOM Files into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' altogether ...
There is just NO need to "Upload" of GEDCOM File into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', under ANY circumstance ... even if one's "ancestral" Lines are NOT already in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ...
As I always 'say', to User/Patrons, who mention the "Upload" of GEDCOM File into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch':
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You can; but ...
Please DO NOT, Upload a GEDCOM File, into "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch'.
Upload the GEDCOM Files, in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', that is fine; but, please NOT, into "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch'.
Some of the reasons that Users/Patrons (like myself) DO NOT, want the ability, to upload a GEDCOM File, into "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch' are:
(1) It is most likely that individuals/persons in a GEDCOM File are ALREADY, in "Family Tree" of, 'FamilySearch'; and, most Users/Patrons DO NOT even take the time to look to see if any one in their GEDCOM File is already, in "Family Tree", in some instances, negating the need to even upload the GEDCOM File.
(2) There has been (many) cases where Users/Patrons, using the "Compare" process (of the upload), have "Dismissed" a "Possible" Match, with an individual/person already, in "Family Tree"; so that, their "Record", from their GEDCOM File, is loaded into "Family Tree", regardless; just so that, their "Record" appears, in "Family Tree" (and, in some instances, for Members of the Church, so they can do the "Temple" Work, despite the fact that the "Temple" Work is ALREADY done, with the "Possible" Match, with the individual/person already in "Family Tree").
(3) Even with the "Compare" process (of the upload), there has been (many) cases; where, Users/Patrons have uploaded THEIR version, of an individual/person, in their GEDCOM File, on top of (ie. Over) an individual/person ALREADY, in "Family Tree", of "FamilySearch", that has been there for MANY years; and, is well documented and "Sources" - in many instances, obliterating, all of the documentation and "Sources".
(4) If an individual/person is ALREADY, in "Family Tree", of "FamilySearch", there is NO need to up uploaded one's version, of an individual/person from one's own GEDCOM File - just take note of the the 'FamilySearch Person Identifier' (PID), of the individual/person, that is ALREADY, in "Family Tree"; and, one can go back later to ensure what information/detail is recorded and attached for that individual/person. Just DO NOT uploaded one's version, of an individual/person in one's GEDCOM File, on top of (ie. Over) an individual/person ALREADY, in "Family Tree" - obliterating, all of the documentation and "Sources", ALREADY in place/on record.
(5) The "Hours" (sometimes "Days"; or, even, "Weekes") of work, by other Users/Patrons, that can be needed, to CORRECT, the DAMAGE done, by the upload, of a GEDCOM File, can be disheartening.
I am sorry ... 'off my soap box' ...
Enter (ie. 'Create') the individuals/persons, in "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch' one at a time - on a one by one basis.
Many of the individuals/persons, in a GEDCOM File, most probably, ALREADY exist, in "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch'.
Only one or two generations of the "Living" individuals/persons; and, perhaps, maybe, only one or two generations of the "Deceased" individuals/persons, may be required to be entered/input, into "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch"; BEFORE, some of the "Deceased" individuals/persons, from one's Ancestral Lines, ALREADY existing, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', are discovered.
Use the "Find" facility/function/feature, to Search, "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', one may be surprised to find some (if not, many) of them already there.
Many well established and documented (eg. "Sourced") individuals/person in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' have been RUINED, by the upload, a GEDCOM File, into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
I hope this puts things into perspective.
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Just my thoughts.
Brett
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Also, there is no way for anyone except the person who uploaded the GEDCOM to view their data. "GEDCOM data" just means the person has a private tree somewhere else.
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If the patron added a GEDCOM file in FamilySearch you should be able to look in Genealogies under pedigree resource file to find the specific uploaded information. However, it may not be that useful.
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Generally there is no more detail on the GEDCOM file in Genealogies, although you can see the full extent of the tree the contributor tried to import into Family Tree.
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Once again there are a variety of opinions and comments regarding working with GEDCOMs at FamilySearch. Some important facts have been presented as well which I wish to again confirm based upon our knowledge articles in the Help Center and based upon my own personal experience when working with GEDCOM files myself.
1) Uploading a GEDCOM does not automatically move your information into Family Tree. The comparison done by the system, and then your review of each filter will allow you to add new information, edit existing records that are already in Family Tree, and confirm that many of your ancestors may already be in Family Tree with more information that you have in your own personal records. The comparison will also remind you that living people must be entered manually in your own private spaces, and that some records in your file may have come across as compromised so they will not be able to be added through the GEDCOM since they will remain on the invalid or living category. These can also be added manually.
2) GEDCOM files can be created in many third-party programs, and when you upload them, you will need to choose a unique name for the file so that our software can identify the file or the file will not upload properly. It may simply show as "processing" with no file name and with no total person count. This can be confusing and irritating because these entries don't just disappear. Any file that does not finish processing will not have the delete option, but you can upload it again paying close attention to the name of the file.
3) GEDCOM files are copied to the Pedigree Resource File where searching with a unique person will help you find your file, however, no edits can be made in the Pedigree Resource File.
4) Media links, photos and similar information does not transfer through your GEDCOM.
5) The system does allow you to identify records that are created as you add new individuals since the reason statements for these new records will say that the source is from an imported GEDCOM.
GEDCOMS are often not needed because Family Tree is a shared tree and millions of records have already been created which you may find are part of your pedigree, however, GEDCOMs are not junk. They often provide a quick way to share what you have in your personal records. This does enhance Family Tree as it helps to complete our goal of working together to provide as much accurate information about our ancestors as possible.
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Just in passing ...
The "Points" that you raise are reasonable.
Though, an interesting summation ...
Based upon, your own personal experience, when working with GEDCOM files ...
Question:
Are you one, of the MANY of us, that have had your "Ancestral" Lines DAMAGE / RUINED (and, in some cases, beyond REPAIR); and/or, spent many "Hours" (sometimes "Days"; or, even, "Weekes") of work, trying to CORRECT, the DAMAGE done, by the upload, of a GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'?
IF, you have; THEN, my condolences; and, that is, at least something ...
Whereas ...
IF, you have NOT; THEN, your final paragraph does not hold true ...
GEDCOM Files DO NOT need, to be "Uploaded", into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', under ANY circumstance; even, if one's "Ancestral" Lines are NOT already, in "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch'.
GEDCOM Files, can; and, should ONLY, be "Uploaded", into the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', that is fine; but, NO further; and, certainly NOT, into "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
'No', GEDCOM File are NOT; as, has been suggested, "Junk"; but, such is the "Research" of ONLY One User/Patron; and, in fact, just their opinion. Unfortunately, some GEDCOM Files, can be next to useless.
But, what makes things worse, is that some (if not much) of the "Supporting" details/information, included in a GEDCOM File, is NOT 'Transferred' into 'FamilySearch' in either, the "Genealogies" Part; nor, the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch' (as detailed, in various "Knowledge Articles", in 'FamilySearch'); which, in MANY cases, REDUCES the usefulness of those GEDCOM Files; especially, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch.
"Sharing", one's Genealogical/Family History research, through the "Uploaded", of a GEDCOM File, into the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', can be quick; but, as we have 'seen', through posts, in this; and, previous 'iterations', of the 'FamilySearch' "Feedback", Forums, is NOT always that easy.
And, in any case, MANY; Many; many, Users/Patrons, are NOT even aware about, the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', let alone, the ability, of "Searching" in such, for additional "Research".
GEDCOM Files, in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', certainly DO enhance 'FamilySearch'.
But ...
That Said ...
I am sorry ...
In all my Years, I have never 'seen' (or, even come across), a GEDCOM File, that was "Uploaded", into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', that ever enhanced, the "Family" Part, of 'FamilySearch' (nor, 'FamilySearch').
GEDCOM Files, that are "Uploaded", into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', certainly DO NOT help, to complete our goal, of working together, to provide as much accurate information about our Ancestors, as possible - in fact, far from it.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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Our personal opinions vary. Yes, I have had my Ancestral Lines compromised and have made many corrections and then sent emails and messages with links to verifying sources many times to other extended family members. Perhaps because I have worked with them in a respectful manner I have been blessed to have many positive experiences as I have gotten to know many great family members.
While you have a problem with GEDCOMs, I do not, and I support each users decision to enter their family records in the way that works best for them.
You are very welcome to your opinion as long as it is simply your opinion and is not construed to represent your opinion as the policy established by FamilySearch. Family Search does allow users to work with GEDCOMs so your comments that verify you are sharing your opinion are greatly appreciated.
I am grateful that several GEDCOMs have allowed entire ancestral lines to populate in my extended pedigree and have thanked those who were responsible for sharing their research.
Nuff said. My philosophy is in total agreement with the purpose of Family Tree which is to work together...even if it is when we connect to an ancestral line because someone copied their GEDCOM into Family Tree.
Unlike you, I don't believe a line can be disrupted beyond the ability to be repaired. Why repairing damaged lines is not the most productive use of our family history time, I am still grateful for a program that has allowed me to grow my pedigree through the efforts of wonderful extended family members.
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GEDCOMs are just tools. Like any tool they can be used and misused. Just like when the tool is a match which can be used to light a candle or start a million acre forest fire, GEDCOMs can be used to enhance Family Tree or cause major damage.
I have very successfully used GEDCOMs to import small family clusters (50 to 100) individuals when I have first thoroughly determined that none or just a couple of the individual were in Family Tree. This can be an efficient way to get a backbone structure into a hole in Family Tree of basic information to which I then go through and completely document by editing the format and adding all the sources. This is lighting a candle.
I have seen far too many posts on these boards from people who want to add their 50,000 individual GEDCOM to Family Tree and are very upset because they do not want to do any comparing of individuals, combining of duplicates, or worrying about the fact that sources do not transfer. They just want their copy of the information in Family Tree. This is starting a forest fire. Fortunately it seems they tend to give up.
Regarding FamilySearch's policy on adding GEDCOMs to Family Tree, there are plenty of articles on how to use them, but I haven't seen much about when they are appropriate and when they should be avoided. This is kind of like giving a child a box of matches, demonstrating how to light them, then leaving them alone. That is rarely a good idea.
Regarding disrupting trees, I do agree everything is repairable, but if someone uses a GEDCOM to add thousands of poor quality duplicates which they leave for everyone else to merge with the well documented, well sourced, well constructed individuals already in Family Tree; or if that person rushes through the compare process and adds a bunch of incorrect information to the wrong people; or if that person adds random children (as may have happened in the case that started this post) because the compare process suggested the children might belong there and the person did nothing to actually confirm whether that was accurate or not, it is easy to get very disenchanted with GEDCOMs.
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For me adding a huge GEDCOM isn't the problem. The problem is where did that huge GEDCOM come from? If it was just a quick and dirty mash-up of bare trees copied from others, then it may be a lot of garbage. Garbage in, garbage out.
I used to worry about lots of duplicate profiles being created through GEDCOM uploads but I do not find it to be a problem currently. Most GEDCOM imports I've had to clean up were from years ago. Nowadays, doing a good job on Family Tree profiles pretty well protects them against GEDCOM imports, so there is little to no need to worry much about well-curated profiles getting clobbered.
In the case of poorly curated profiles, pasting in a GEDCOM makes no difference to me; every detail remains suspect until supported by evidence.
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Continuing Gordon's analogy: the problem with FS's GEDCOM import setup is that it hands you a match and shows you a bunch of wicks, but doesn't show you whether those wicks are attached to candles or dynamite. You can figure out which one's what, but you have to crawl around on the floor to peer through the cracks. Luckily, most people give up after a round or two of that, refusing to light any of the wicks, but unfortunately, many users are unaware of the possibility of dynamite. If you assume that all of the wicks are for candles, you're just going to light them all, right? That's what starts the forest fires: incomplete or misleading information given to the person with the match.
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Let's see how far we can push this analogy.
Unfortunately, the GEDCOM problem is compounded by the recurring issue of people not understanding that Family Tree is a shared tree. "It's fine to use dynamite to make nice hole to plant my tree," they think, and so go ahead a upload a huge GEDCOM. They don't realized they put that dynamite under General Sherman.
To switch analogies, since no one seems to read any introductory or explanatory articles before they start and then get upset and claim they were deceived when they find out every user on Family Tree can edit "their tree," I think all users, particularly new users, should be presented with this splash screen at least once before they can enter any data into Family Tree.
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However, to get back to the entire point if this post, I don't think anyone ever actually directly answered @Helen Jones question.
To find that child:
1) At the top of any FamilySearch page, click on Search and choose Genealogies
to come here:
2) In the search box click on More Options to get the full search form where you need to click on Collections then choose Pedigree Resource File. Also, have Show Exact Search Selected and check every Exact box:
Now put in all the information showing on the child. Check in the Change Log and make sure the initial import was not edited.
When you click Search, if you are lucky that child will be your first hit and you should be able to see the entire family structure from the GEDCOM as dontiknowyou mentioned. Then you can see if the parents and siblings in the GEDCOM file really match where the child ended up in Family Tree.
If not, you can remove the child and if you are in a generous mood, try to find where the child actually belongs and put the child back with the child's real parents.
If they do, then maybe this other researcher really did find a missing child. That does happen! If fact, that is why we are all here - to find new information. And you should check with the contributor to find out what sources are available to show who the child is and that the child belongs.
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FamilySearch is a like wiki, meaning, information should get more and more accurate, as collaborators fix it, using RELIABLE AND GENUINE sources. Sadly, all that work gets scrapped every time some loads their unverified and unreliable GEDCOM data, and then requires hours and hours of repairing and rebuilding.
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An upload might be unverified and unreliable, but that is independent of the "GEDCOM data" label.
Most profiles I have worked, that have that label, have been acceptable.
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@Helen Jones how has this turned out? Did the child belong to that family, or not?
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