I have no idea what is what in this record
I am trying to index some records from the 19th century in County Cavan, Ireland. The Project Instructions say that most of these records are marriage or baptism records, and to not index items not in this county. Some problems I'm running into:
- The project is marked intermediate, but when I go in, it gives me a warning that this is advanced. Which is it? (I know this is a FS error, not issues with the actual record, but it still makes it difficult to pick projects.)
- There is zero indication of what type of records these are. I'm learning towards assuming they are marriage records, since there is more than 1 name, but I know assumptions are BAD in indexing so I'd rather not. None of the examples provided are remotely relevant to these records.
- I cannot tell where these mysterious events took place for sure. Some diligent googling indicated that the word above the date could be the township (as Gallon and Kilnacor are both townships in County Cavan), but without any field labels, it's impossible to tell. Do I need to Google every possible township to make sure it's in the right county?
- There are abbreviations in parentheses or other areas in the record that I have no idea what they could mean. For instance, in the image I've attached there is something that looks like 'nil' or 'mil' or even possibly 'nit' in parentheses in the 2nd record. I have no idea if that is something important that should be indexed or anything else. Even more importantly, there is something that looks like 'Sr' or possibly 'Sp' before some initials (I think) at the end of EVERY record in this batch. Again, no clue what this could mean or if it should be indexed or anything of the sort.
- The second item (record? date's records?) seems to have listed 2 marriages (between John - F Bernard & Ellen Lynch, and between Michael Lynch & Mary Lynch). Many of the records in this batch are similar. The first item, however, is different, and confuses me. It seems to end with a marriage (between Mat Obvill & Peggy Lynch), but the first part, "Thomas Crawford of Thomas and Jane Reilly" makes no sense. Is this a christening? A baptism? It runs right into the part that looks like a marriage, so is it related, or was that simply a desperate act of paper conservation?
Overall, I don't think this would be a difficult project/batch if the Project Information even came close to giving accurate or helpful information, and I'm frustrated. How am I supposed to move forward in indexing with such an abysmal lack of information?
Best Answer
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Community responder (not Familysearch) - not an expert but some experience with parish records
1. If it gives the advanced warning it should be advanced - however - once you become familiar with the format of the parish records I think it is more intermediate.
2. With the snippet you have included - this is what I would assume about the format of records on this page (so far):
Location/date (month and year top of page). Name of child being baptized. Name of parents (father listed first & mother). (Question 4) Sp (sponsors/godparents) - the format appears to list their names before this abbreviation. Parish priest (initials)
3. Some parish record indexing projects include a location list - if these from Cavan do not - there are some mapping applications that could help(maybe search for 'Cavan townlands map'). I haven't read the project instructions but perhaps they give direction about assuring locations are from Cavan (since they are parish records from the county all the locations SHOULD be from Cavan).
4. I do not know the letters/abbreviation in parentheses (it might apply to the priest initials below)
5. These are baptism records (my considered opinion) in the format as I have indicated above (not marriage records - although the parents are likely married).
Move forward cautiously but gaining experience with the parish record format. I hope this helps.
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Answers
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Do you have a Shared Batch code for this? The image you shared does not go anywhere or show anything but that the image is blue with a timer in the center.
The Shared batch code can be found at the end of the project name. It is 7 numbers and letters inside brackets.
Thanks!
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I made the mistake of editing something in the original post, which for some reason removed the image link, so I went back and re-added it. Can you see it now? I will go dig up the shared batch code while you check.
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Shared batch code: [Part A][M3Z5-T5R]
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Thank you for your response! Lots of helpful stuff. Some questions/responses to your reply:
- I see that reasoning, but as a matter of practicality and best practices, I personally believe that the error in the projects listing should be to mark it as advanced (which they did NOT do, it was listed under Intermediate). Better to do that and have it be a little easy for the advanced folks, than to discourage less advanced folks or lead to bad indexing work.
- SP MEANS SPONSOR!!!!! GAAAAAHHH I forgot the importance and legal standing of godparents! THANK YOU! This would be essential data to have for indexing!
- The project instructions definitely say not to include records for outside County Cavan, but I couldn't tell what was what. I think my deduction that the first word is the township is correct, and googling helped me verify that. I also found, if I exited the batch and went back in, that the 'advanced' warning included a location guide link that lists all the townships in Cavan, which is helpful. Would have been MORE helpful to be able to access it from WITHIN the batch, but progress is progress. TL;DR: you're right. :)
- Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to leave the parenthetical things as a mystery and not index them. My curiosity is killing me!
- I did not see how these could possibly be baptism records UNTIL I REALIZED that the entry is inconsistent--e.g., the first record says "Thomas Crawford of Thomas and Jane Reilly" while the 2nd and most others say just "John--F. Bernard & Ellen Lynch." And then it hit me--for some unlisted reason, Thomas Crawford has a different surname than the parents (hence the 'of'), while John (Lynch, unlisted because same as parents) just has a DASH (not an underscore, like it looks like there) to connect him to his parents! OH MY GOSH THANK YOU THANK YOU IT'S FINALLY CLEAR TO ME!
And now I'm super excited to do this batch because I finally have an idea of how it works. You saved me! THANK YOU!
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3. Yes it is difficult sometimes to determine whether the place 'interpreted' is within the County of the Project. My assumption usually is that it is within the County whether I can determine the place or not. Place names and spelling are variable and a person with more local knowledge may be able to recognize a place better. That said - I like to check the provided list and if I cannot locate the place - I revert to general project instructions and just type the place name as I see it in the record.
Other times I like to refer to town and list/map resources (which should be similar to provided list but includes Irish name and helpful similar results). I believe the following list should be townlands for County Cavan:
https://www.logainm.ie/en/s?txt=in%3a100003&cat=BF&pag=-1&ord=en
5. Thomas Crawford of Thomas & Jane Reilly
Crawford might be his middle name - possibly mother's maiden name -since baptism record. But I think the instructions for surname say ... 'Do not assume from others on the page'?
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