I found a document that shows different info...I need to delete previous person created
On my father's side it is extremely difficult to find any information. We have an old baptismal certificate of my grandfather written in latin but from a polish/german source. It has been difficult to interpret but I think we've figured it out. What we thought was a great grandfather isn't so we need to adjust the names in the tree and delete the great great grandparents who are actually the great grandparents. Long story but it won't allow me to delete them. Below is the two names that need to be deleted .
Best Answers
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Yes, I am completely certain that the parents are Matthew Studniczka and Catherine Bremenstuhl.
Transcription of the Parents column: Mateus Studniczka fls. [abbreviation of filius] Francisci et Rosaliae Herring, Catharina fla. [abbreviation of filia] Gaspari Bremenstuhl et Elisabethae Szep.
Word by word: Mateus Studniczka son of-Franciscus and of-Rosalia Herring, Catharina daughter of-Gasparus Bremenstuhl and of-Elisabetha Szep.
The names I've written as "of-X" are in the genitive case, which is how Latin does possessives.
Yes, the person who gets the surname is somewhat haphazard-seeming (Matthew rather than Frank, but Gaspar rather than Catherine), but the fact that the surname repeats from father to legitimate child was so automatic that this phrasing was totally clear to everyone. A "fully functional" translation is:
Father: Matthew Studniczka, son of Frank Studniczka and of Rosalia Herring. Mother: Catherine Bremenstuhl, daughter of Gaspar Bremenstuhl and of Elisabeth Szep.
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Another reason it was correct. At that time, in that part of the world, women were named in official documents with either their maiden surname or no surname at all. So Herring is not the surname of Franciscus (Frank), it is the surname of Rosalia.
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OK, now how do I move the people in the parent spot of Matthew to the grandparent spot? Will that mess everything up?
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Answers
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If you have people who are in the wrong place in your family lines, you simply need to delete the incorrect r relationships that have been created (i.e. incorrect child-parent relationship or spouse-spouse-relationship. Note: you do not need to delete the people because they actually existed,,,they are just in the wrong place), Deleting the incorrect relationship effectively removes the person from the incorrect place in your family lines without (crucially) deleting them completely from Family Tree. When the incorrect relationship has been deleted you can then add them to the correct place in your family lines using their ID number. Here are a few articles from the FS Help Centre that gives more detail on these processes:
Hope this helps.
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I understand that but the people that they need to replace never existed. So, the couple I'm trying to move are the same but need to move one generation ahead, then the people they are replacing never existed. We had to guess at what the document was trying to say and it was not translated correctly so names were created with ID's for people that never existed. Then the ones that need to fill that spot on the tree are transferred but then their spot can't be erased. Sounds confusing I know.
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It sounds like you need to do a combination of
1- correcting the child parent relationship from the incorrect couple to the correct couple using the link referred to above and also inserted below
2- then either editing the vital information of the incorrect couple, if you did not make new records for them with new ID's, or merge the two records if you did make new records for them. Whether you are editing information or merging, make sure the correct sources are connected to these now correct records. Here are the Help Center links for these instructions.
I will send you a private message if you would like further, detailed instructions.
Hope these steps help you with your specific issue.
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I think "Francisei Studnizka" (LHTK-Y7K) is a conflation of people, currently; he obviously started as legacy data, imported from a previous version of the Tree in 2012. Usually, these were based on indexed baptisms, but given the misspelled "Galecia" as the birthplace, this might be some other sort of entry. In any case, he was originally Matheus (Matthew), not Franciscus (Frank, Francis).
(The Austrian crown land is correctly Galicia.)
I went looking at the profiles because I was hoping you had the Latin record you mention attached somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
Note that what the document very likely actually says is Francisci, which is "Frank's", i.e. the possessive form. The nominative is Franciscus.
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It looks like the legacy data came from the user-submitted part of the International Genealogical Index:
I have not found any sources for the IGI entries, and searching for the batch number came up empty for me.
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By this time, this has gotten very confusing. I think the best thing to start with is to make a correct pedigree chart for all the persons involved. If they did NOT exist, DON't put them on the chart. Then call FamilySearch.org and have the ID number of the most recent person available for your helper missionary. Start with the most recently born individuals. Then you can go up the tree. I think this is the only way you will get it completely corrected. These situations can get kind of tricky, but careful, prayerful work can usually correct them even though sometimes we need professional help from a missionary. God bless!
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Julia Szent-Györgyi , I uploaded the baptismal certificate that has been the cause of confusion. I thought it stated that Mateus's father had the same name, but then looking at it again, his father is Franceisi and mother Rosalia, not his grandparents. Grandparents are not listed. God parents are listed though. So, now on the family tree his parents are listed as his grand parents and I need to delete his parents and switch with the grandparents which are actually his parents. It won't allow me to erase the names of his parents and those are the ones that are non existent.
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Simply merge each parent and grandparent page, retaining the correct names.
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It won't allow me to merge the grand parent . It states: A parent cannot be merged with his or her child.
This I understand but what is not true is that the names I'm trying to merge are not even related, the names in the parent slot are not even real, they were mistakenly added from a document when in reality the names in the grandparent slot are the actual parents. So, I'm stuck..
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Okay, detach the grandparent from the parent, then merge them.
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I called family search and got help....they fixed the problem for me! Now I have one more question. On the baptismal certificate (which is in latin) it states the parents and then one more person. Catherine daughter of Gaspar and Elizabeth. I have no idea why there is a third person and who they are in connection with the child being baptised. Can anyone help to translate this?
My grandfather Mathew Studnek's ID is KNF8-843, the document is attached to that.
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Check the PID. I don't see a baptism record on KNF8-843.
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The baptismal extract on the Memories tab of Mathew Frank Studnek KNF8-843 does have grandparents:
Empire of Austria
Crown land of Galicia
District of Kamionka str [probably Kamionka Strumiłowa]
Diocese of Leop?? [possibly a Latinization of Lviv/Lwów]
Parish of Kamionka str
Number 255
[roughly:] The parish office of the Church of Kamionka dedicated to the Assumption of the Virgin Mary testifies that the church's metrical book, volume XI page 146, reports the following:
Year, month, and day of birth and baptism: born 6 April, baptised 8 April 1887
House number: Kraticze? 6
Name: Mateus [Matthew]
Religion: Roman Catholic
Sex: male
Status: legitimate
Parents: Mateus Studniczka, son of Franciscus (Studniczka) and Rosalia Herring; Catharina, daughter of Gaspar Bremenstuhl and Elisabeth Szep
Godparents: Mateus Funk, Christina Funk
midwife: Maria Zima [it says "obst", not "obit"]
Officiant: Gregorius Mykitka, parson of Zeldec?
Extract issued in Kamionka str, 30 May 1911, by Joannes Czyrel, parson
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You'll notice that I'm unsure of all of the placenames; part of my problem is that I don't know any Polish, so I don't know how to un-Latinize the Latinized placenames. But the people's names are easier: we have a child, Matthew, born 6 April 1887; his parents are Matthew Studniczka and Catherine Bremenstuhl, his paternal grandparents are Frank Studniczka and Rosalia Herring, and his maternal grandparents are Gaspar Bremenstuhl and Elisabeth Szep.
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Are you sure his parents are Matthew Studniczka and Catherine Bremenstuhl? How did you determine that? Where does it say grandparents are Frank Studniczka and Rosalia Herring? I thought his parents were Frank Studniczka and rosalia Herring? This is so very confusing!
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@Julia Szent-Györgyi has it correct. It says Mateus Studniczka fils Francisci. That means son of Franciscus Studniczka. The surname is not repeated because it is the same.
The formula here is father and his father and mother, mother and her father and mother.
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Start from the grandparents. Detach the baby and keep its PID handy. Make each missing parent as a child of the appropriate grandparents. Join the two parents as a couple. Then attach the baby to the couple.
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So, if I go to the current parents which are actually the grandparents, do I remove Matthew(the child) as well as his two siblings?
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If the baptismal records for them are similar, yes. First, sort out grand parents, parents, child for Matthew. Then, simply detach each of Matthew's sibling and re-attach them where they belong.
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You have all been so very helpful. Thank you, thank you!! I think I've got it figured out.
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Another question. The last names Studniczka, Bremenstuhl, Szep, and Herring - what origin are they? The baptismal certificate is in latin but maybe German or Polish origin? The area Galecia is in Austria, but are the names Austrian?
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Bremenstuhl and Herring are German. Szep is Hungarian, or Hungarian spelling of Sep, which may be German or Dutch.
Studniczka is rare: search historical records and look at the collections where it occurs: https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.surname=Studniczka&q.surname.exact=on&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on&count=20&offset=0
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Studniczka is some flavor of Slavic (possibly related to a Polish word for "student"), and as dontiknowyou said, Bremenstuhl and Herring are German. Szép is Hungarian for "pretty, beautiful".
Keep in mind that names are not necessarily indicative of ethnicity. Also, the locations of political boundaries can only gradually influence the language(s) that people use and their group identities, meaning that nationality is completely different from ethnicity.
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