How do I report false information in the Memories attached to a person' profile?

LionelFrost

Accounts of the early life of Christiana Gertruida Cornelia Cignet Mitchell Frost (KWNC-LLQ), captured in Memories attached to her FamilySearch profile, are largely fabricated. There was no great wealth in the family; stories of diamond mines, mansions etc are pure fantasy. The assertion that Christiana's father Phillip Frost (not Phillip John Frost as stated in the subject material) was a medical practitioner who set up a research laboratory in South Africa is untrue. In all these respects, These personal "recollections" of Christiana's descendants contradict documentary material held in FamilySearch's own database. How does one go about getting these falsehoods removed from the record, or at least clearly tagged for what they are?

Kind Regards,

Lionel Frost

(4th great-grandson of Phillip Frost)

Adelaide,

South Australia

Johanne T. Hernes

Hi Lionel Frost! I would try to find out who has written it and then address the issue for this person. If the person is dead, you can add a kindly note that these were rumors which weren't correct. Explain and state your source.

Best regards

Johanne Hernes

LionelFrost

Thanks Johanne, I'll try that. I have already addressed one case in the manner you have suggested, and I expect I will have to convey a similar message to a number of additional contributors, as the misinformation has been propagated over several generations, proliferating in the process..

Dennis J Yancey

also

simply add a comment to the memories record (use the option at the bottom of the page under the specific item)

BUT use tact, respect and do your best to backup your statement with supporting evidence.

also realize that the person who posted any given item - may no longer be reachable via messaging - or may even now be deceased.

dontiknowyou

Could this be a case of conflation? Where the stories are true but belong to another family?

LionelFrost

The people involved are clearly identified as my ancestors. The story is grossly fabricated.

Dennis J Yancey

quite common in family research actually - how families stories grow from a grain of salt to a gross hyperbolic fabrication

as I suggested - feel free to just place your comments attached to the memory item and do your best to back up what you say with sources.

LionelFrost

For example, the story identifies my great great great great grandfather Phillip Frost as a medical practitioner and researcher with a well-equipped scientific laboratory. The documentary evidence (baptism certificates of his children, and his own death certificate) confirm that he was a brickmaker in the frontier town of Port Elizabeth.

LionelFrost

I'll follow up your suggestion Dennis, thank you - I've just been a bit short of time.

Dennis J Yancey

I have actually spent quite a bit of time - trying to document various errors and myths among the Yancey family. I try to document it well and then load such an item as a FS memory also - to correct the untruths that have spread

such examples:

http://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/yanceybrothers.htm

http://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/earliest.htm

http://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/errors6.htm

http://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/bolling.htm

dontiknowyou

This type of situation is very common if there is a prominent person with the same surname, or even same name, who might have been the family's ancestor if this, that, and the other detail are explained away. It is a conflation, an historical conflation.

Currently, L21V-PR3 Philip Frost has 2 wives families. With M4PZ-383 Elizabeth Pitcher Doughty he has 12 children. With L21V-PRP Christiana Gertruida Cornelia Clignet van Lelÿveld he has two children, one being your KWNC-LLQ Christiana Gertrude Cornelia Clignet Frost.

Looking at the change log on L21V-PR3 Philip Frost, I see a merge followed by dispute. It looks to me like a conflation of two men named Philip Frost.

Are you sure there is just one Philip Frost? Did your Philip Frost had a mistress?

Dennis J Yancey

Here is the same family on Wikitree

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Frost-4195

LionelFrost

The story is a concoction of myths and misapprehensions about life in Africa, and romantic 19th century story lines of a daughter born into wealth and privilege, and helping her father in his world-leading scientific research. Views of Table Mountain with its famous table cloth are woven into the tale of a girl growing up in the eastern Cape, over 400 miles away. The tale includes fabulous diamond mines, mansions, jewelry and fine art. It is not so much conflation of biographies of real persons as a conflation of stereotypical concepts, gathered from Rider Haggard novels, Tarzan comic books and travel brochures.

dontiknowyou

Yes, old conflations are like that.

Nonetheless, there are two sets of children by someone named Philip Frost. That part is not in dispute, correct?

Would you like us to help you move forward? Moving forward is not about telling any other contributors to stop.

Dennis J Yancey

an old family letter:

LionelFrost

Hi Dennis, thanks, I am aware of that letter, but it does not address the issue. Phillip Frost had 10 children (give or rake) with his wife Elizabeth, and he also had an illegitimate daughter with Christiana van Lelyveld of Uitenhage. It is the life story of the daughter (also Christiana), and specifically her childhood in South Africa), as told by her American descendants, wherein the falsehoods lie. I can't comment on the accuracy of the description of her time in the United States.

Thank you for your interest. Let's suspend the conversation here; I'll collate the documentary evidence, and post it to FamilySearch where you'll be welcome to review it and draw your own conclusions.

Kind Regards,

Lionel Frost

dontiknowyou

Many family histories have fantasy elements. If the fantasies have been published or circulated in print, treat them as part of the historical record, as secondary sources.

Meanwhile, focus on the primary historical record: births, deaths, marriages, census records, etc.

Dissecting and debunking myths is outside the scope of Family Tree. For that, many family history researchers have dedicated websites. Here, it is all about getting the pedigree right. And the process for getting it right is consensus among interested parties.

LionelFrost

Thanks dontiknowyou, if we read published fantasies as part of the historical record, I think it's only fair that we grant the corrections a similar status i.e. as secondary sources, don't you?

Almost ready to post a respectful correction.

Kind Regards, Lionel

Dennis J Yancey

Totally agree with you Lionel. We need to set straight the record.

dontiknowyou

 if we read published fantasies as part of the historical record, I think it's only fair that we grant the corrections a similar status i.e. as secondary sources

I certainly agree, but not everyone does.  And for exactly that reason you would get far more mileage publishing in a peer-reviewed genealogy research journal.  That is the very best quality of secondary source. Genealogical Institute of South Africa (GISA) has a quarterly journal Familia, that looks like a great candidate.

Family histories are fact but very often not factual. It is a fact that a certain family history goes as follows: [insert fantasy of adventure, wealth, and nobility]. Is any of it factual? Family newsletters, elders' stories that are written down, all are part of the historical record, whether factual or not. So are posts on FT, even deleted posts; they are retained in the change logs.

You can take umbrage, or you can be intrigued. Which attitude gets you farther?

FamilySearch takes no action on the vast majority of content disputes, which is all this is.  Other contributors can suppress you indefinitely, so you must persuade.  Reporting to FS will do you no good; FS does not referee. If edit warring gets hot enough or goes on long enough, FS may lock the page without regard to which side is "winning" at that moment.

The only way you can prevent others from deleting your content on FT is to post it under Collaboration, as a Discussion not a Note, using the web interface. Mobile app users cannot see Discussions.

By engaging here you can learn exactly what the contentious points are and what arguments and evidence are most persuasive. In effect, engaging will polish your material.

Family Tree has much in common with Wikipedia, which has some great advice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_angry_mastodons

LionelFrost

Thanks for your measured advice dontiknowyou. I visited Wikipedia as you suggested and found their approach very sensible.

I will therefore accept the record for what it is, and post my comments to the Collaboration area, making sure that they are phrased constructively.

Cheers

Lionel

P.S. thank you for your support Dennis. I think dontiknowyou's suggestion offers a way to correct the record without unnecessary confrontation.

dontiknowyou

Cool. I notice FS has more historical records for the family in South Africa that have not been attached yet to profiles. Doing that work usually is well received by other contributors.