Performing Temple Ordinances for people when you have no sources....and no vital information
The spouse of my 6th great grand father is now having temple work performed. Research for the past 100 years, books published, ...no one has found her name or any vitals.
She has no known name, birth date, birth place nor parentage...yet. However, someone inserted her name as 'Mrs Thomas Wheeler', inserted a birthdate 'about 1664', inserted a birth place as 'Maryland, Colonial America'.... into Family Search. I wrote an email to the person who inserted this name, etc ...and suggested ...we need some sources on this information as proof...since the information given could be applied to many people.
The answer came back to me....not as an email response, nor with any sources added but rather with them submitting the name for temple ordinances.
Should Temple Ordinances for individuals with no sources attached....be allowed?? I have informed our ward that no submission to the temple should be made without at least one valid sources....how difficult is that??? How much time can that take??? To at least show others that you have done some due diligence to make this person a real individual and not just another number to have temple work performed.
If the people we do ordinance work for are real...then the information should be found and sourced in FS. If we can't find even one source for the information we use....then maybe that information is not correct...and we are thus creating an 'endless genealogy'....going in circles. We probably just need to look harder.
Suggestion: 1. Provide a source for each item of information placed in FS...even if it is only a family bible or family information.
2. At least one valid source for any temple submission.
Aggressive submitters can circumnavigate these requirements (the ones in the above tagged article by the Church).... by inserting made up dates, place and even names. Calculations are great for research...but using the calculation for the FINAL RESULTS should be much more hardened calculations....not guesses. By requiring a source for temple submissions, at least researchers will have to attach something...yes, it also could be false...but at least there is then proof of the falsehood. The current system is wide open for incorrect input to FS.
PROVIDE SOURCES ON ALL TEMPLE SUBMISSIONS....NO SOURCES....NO TEMPLE WORK.
Comments
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Russell
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron.
And, I happen to be a Member of the Church.
Although, many of use would agree, that certain "Vital" information, SHOULD be recorded; BEFORE, any "Temple" Work is undertaken ...
But ...
That said ...
In the past, in accordance with the requirements of the Church, such SCANT "Vital" information; such as, a 'Name' like "Mrs Thomas WHEELER" (or, in some cases, even less); and, a 'Date' like "about 1664", HAS been DEEMED, acceptable.
I am not going there ...
Now ...
That said ...
As to "Sources" ...
I am sorry ...
But ...
'FamilySearch', CANNOT, "Mandate" a REQUIREMENT, that a "Source" MUST be "Attached"; BEFORE, any "Temple" Work can be undertaken.
Please be aware that ...
NOT "All" Events relating to "Vital" information, about some individuals/persons (or, couples), around the World, is available (especially, 'On-Line'); and, therefore, CANNOT be "Attached" as a "Source".
In some, "Countries"; and, Unions, around the World, such "Vital" information may NOT even be accessible.
It is easy, for many of us, from certain "Countries", around the World, to suggest that such "Sources", should be a requirement; before, any "Temple" Work can be undertaken.
But ...
Such consideration, is 'misguided'.
For example ...
From my 'neck of the woods', such "Sources" for "Vital" information; as, "Sources", in 'FamilySearch', was either, very 'limited'; or, just nonexistent.
I often had to, "Create"; and, "Attach", My OWN "Sources" for "Vital" information, that were "User-Defined", referencing other EXTERNAL websites.
I consider, that I am very lucky NOW; as, I can "Attach" the "Sources", for such "Vital" information, directly from the likes of "MyHeritage.com"; as, they are NOT in 'FamilySearch'.
'NO' ...
The likes of "Sources" should NOT be a REQUIREMENT; before, any "Temple" Work can be undertaken.
But ...
That said ...
It is would be certainly PREFERABLE to HAVE (ie. include) ANY "Details", of "Vital" information (eg. including, "Documents" and "Reference Numbers"; etc), for an individual/person (or, Couple), in either, "Reason Statements" (ie. "Reason this information is Correct"); or, "Notes" ▬ or, even, for that matter, "Discussions"; or, the "Life Sketch"; BEFORE, any "Temple" Work can be undertaken.
Whereas ...
That said ...
'FamilySearch' CANNOT 'Mandate' such ...
We DO NOT live in a PERFECT World ...
NOT "All" information is available ...
We can ONLY do what we can do ...
Granted ...
Some Users/Patrons COULD, do better; and, do their 'due diligence'; BEFORE, just entering SCANT "Details" (if, much at all); and, taking a "Name" to the "Temple" ...
I like to, Teach; or, Train, the Members of the Church, to TRY, (1) to find and add "Sources", to confirm information, IF such is available; OR, in the least, (2) provide (ie. "Added) "Details" (from, WHATEVER Records are available), that are NOT available as "Sources", in "Reason Statements" (ie. "Reason this information is Correct"); or, "Notes" ▬ or, even, for that matter, "Discussions"; or, the "Life Sketch"; BEFORE, taking a "Name" to the "Temple".
I say that, I like to add, 'Flesh'; and, 'Bones', to a "Name" (ie. an individual/person; or, couple), to prove that they did actually exist; BEFORE, taking a "Name" (ie. an individual/person; or, couple) to the "Temple"; as, one's experience at the "Temple" WILL be so MUCH better.
Furthermore ...
In relation to that "Knowledge Article" in 'FamilySearch', that you referenced ...
Such, has to be taken into 'context' with a number of other "Knowledge Article" in 'FamilySearch'; and, the Policies and Guidelines of the Church.
Some of those other "Knowledge Articles" include; but, are not limited to ...
Accuracy of information submitted for temple ordinances
Ordinance validity when performed with minor errors
I do not know the exact date to put in Family Tree
Do I Need Exact Dates to Perform a Person’s Ordinances?
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/exact-dates-for-temple-ordinances
How should I enter names in Family Tree?
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/how-to-enter-names-in-family-tree
What words and abbreviations cause "Needs more information" to appear?
Just my thoughts.
Brett
ps: Basically ... that last statement of yours of ...
.... PROVIDE SOURCES ON ALL TEMPLE SUBMISSIONS....NO SOURCES....NO TEMPLE WORK.
.... Should be a NO go; as, it is NOT always possible to, find; and, attach, "Sources".
.... Certainly preferable; but, NOT always possible.
.
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I totally disagree with Brett. The information someone enters has to come from somewhere. If it is family records, then a custom source can be created showing family records.
I spend a lot of time doing family history and entering and correcting information in Family Tree. I also work as a T&FH Consultant.
It boggles my mind that FamilySearch hands keys to the car to people who don't even know what a steering wheel is. Certainly, we welcome them to add to FamilySearch, but the fact that we don't even require them to cite a source when they add new individuals or new relationships is turning Family Tree into genealogy junk very quickly.
We absolutely should require that a person have at least one source before allowing temple work to be submitted. AND we should do a better job of walking people through adding that source with point-of-use helps like we have in Indexing so that they can both successfully add the source and realize what is not an adequate source. Most of the junk is coming from unsourced family trees scooped up from other sites and from unsourced GEDCOM files being dumped in.
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Sheryl
Being realistic here ...
MOST Users/Patrons (ie. the inexperienced ones) DO NOT know HOW to CREATE a 'User-Defined' "Source".
It is very easy for us experienced Users/Patrons to create 'User-Defined' "Source".
But, such is NOT the case for the inexperienced Users/Patrons.
The BEST course of action, for the inexperienced Users/Patrons, is to ADD, the "Details", from a 'Legitimate" (External) Record, in a "Reason Statement" (ie. Reason this Information is Correct).
Doing so is JUST as GOOD as ADDING a "Source"
ie. The relevant "Details" ARE recorded (at least, SOMEWHERE), for the particular individual/person
Once, an inexperienced User/Patron, both, LEARNS, how; and, practices, creating a 'User-Defined' "Source"; then, 'all well and good'.
Until then, ADDING, the "Details", from a 'Legitimate" (External) Record, in a "Reason Statement" is acceptable.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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