Please define "view at partners' sites or legal record custodian"

Roberta Egelston

Many of the films from Hessen and Wuerttemberg that I would like to view are locked. As an example, Film #1457462. When I click the key above the camera, I get the following message: "You may be able to view this image by visiting one of our partners' sites or the legal record custodian (fees may apply)." I am not sure what this means. Are partners' sites affiliate libraries, only Family History centers, only the library in Salt Lake City? and how does one determine who is the "legal record custodian"? Is this information available somewhere in the description of the record?

Thank you for clarifying this message for me.

A van Helsdingen

This message actually means that only members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can view the record. A staff member told me this on this forum's predecessor in late 2019. Before that date, the message was more explicit.

The legal record custodian is the owner of the record. In many cases this is obvious, and written in the catalog entry (e.g. a church, a newspaper, an archive, a government department), but you should contact them to confirm, as things may have changed since FamilySearch filmed the records. Companies such as Ancestry.com and FindMyPast are sometimes considered to be custodians.

"Partners" of FamilySearch include Ancestry.com, MyHeritage and most of the big commercial genealogy websites.

If what you are looking for are Protestant church records, then you'll need to either look at Archion or Ancestry.com. As a general rule, it is not possible for non-Latter Day Saints to access images of German Protestant records through FamilySearch (some indexes are available). Catholic records from Germany are generally accessible to everyone at Affiliate Libraries and Family History Centers.

MaureenE123

From the FamilySearch catalog for Film # 1457462 there are two records https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/653292

Kirchenbuch, 1554-1969 Authors: Evangelische Kirche Kusterdingen (OA. Tübingen) "Mikrofilme aufgenommen von Manuskripten im Landeskirchlichen Archiv Stuttgart".

Also https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/653590

Kirchenbuch, 1652-1974 Authors: Evangelische Kirche Mähringen (OA. Tübingen) "Mikrofilme aufgenommen von Manuskripten im Landeskirchlichen Archiv Stuttgart"

So in your case the legal record custodian is Landeskirchlichen Archiv Stuttgart.

Not exactly sure who the " partners' sites" are, but I think in practice it is commercial sites such as Ancestry. Perhaps you may find these records in the pay website  Archion  which is a project "der Evangelischen Kirche in Deutschland (EKD)".

Although it does not appear in the description, generally the above message as quoted in the original post means that persons who have a LDS Church sign in are able to view these records on their home computers, but FamilySearch consultants have been told they should not supply these records to non-church members for copyright reasons. However if personally know a LDS church member, perhaps they may access the records.

A van Helsdingen

I found these records at Archion: https://www.archion.de/en/browse/?no_cache=1#https://www.archion.de/en/browse/?no_cache=1&path=121390-705967

They are under Wurttemberg>Dekanat Tubingen

Since these records are on Archion, the chance of them ever being accessible to non-LDS members at FamilySearch is between zero and impossible. Even if German non-discrimination law said that this is illegal religious discrimination, all that might happen is LDS members losing their free access. If you want to access these records you'll have to either pay Archion, or see if these records at on Ancestry.com and get free access to Ancestry at a Family History Center or public library. Or as Maureen said, if you have a Latter Day Saint ("Mormon", but this term is now seen as offensive) friend, you could see if they'll use their account to show you the records.

Mike357

Roberta, you have asked a great question. Let try to to give you an answer. You really asked two questions; one having to do with "what is a partner site;" and secondly, "how do we determine who the legal record custodian is?".

Let me begin with the first question: partner sites. Partner sites are companies such as Ancestry, Find My Past, My Heritage, American Ancestors, and Geneanet. These are companies that provide similar services as does FamilySearch -- but one company or FamilySearch cannot provide all historical records or technology that is available in the world. So, FamilySearch and these companies have established a partnership to bring, to you, a greater range of sources and unique technologies. This partnership also makes it easier share family tree data between them and FamilySearch.

Now, these partner sites are completely independent of FamilySearch and therefore have different criteria for using their sites are different than those for FamilySearch. For example, whereas you use all of FamilySearch resource free of charge, other partner sites may require a fee to use their sites.

Now for the IMPORTANT part of the answer. How do I find something like your example -- FamilySearch Film # 1457462 --- in a partner site (let's use Ancestry as an example). Here are some thoughts that will help you navigate between FamilySearch and other partner sites (in this example, Ancestry):

• Search by the Name of your ancestor. Since partner sites don't often organize their historical records in the same way, don't expect to find the same collection name between partner sites (It happens, but don't depend on it.)
• Your film # 1457462 points to two Catalog entries: Kirchenbuch, 1554-1969, and Kirchenbuch, 1652-1974. From the Notes section of each entry, we find that these are Protestant Church records from Kusterdingen, and Mähringen, Württemberg, Germany.
• So, in Ancestry (our example partner site), (1) Search by Name, then (2) because these are Baptism (or similar church rite), Select "Any" Event and add the year of the baptism, then (3) in the Location field, start with the town/city, e.g. "Kusterdingen" - and allow the suggestion that appears to guide you. Often, after entering the city, you can just click on the suggested Location.
• This process will often take you to the desired record.

IF you don't have an account with one of these partner sites, you can visit a Family History Center near you. Some of these centers may be open on an appointment basis. You'll want to find and contact your local Family History Center for specific information. If you have questions about locating a Family History Center, please let me know.

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Now, as to who the "Legal record custodian." You can generally find the Legal record custodian by going to the Catalog Entry. In this case, as I indicated that the film # 1457462 points to two Catalog entries: Kirchenbuch, 1554-1969, and Kirchenbuch, 1652-1974; so let's look at the first.

You may want to view this Catalog entry. You can do so by simply clicking HERE.

The Author, found just below the title, may often give us a clue as to the legal record custodian. In this case, it it, "Evangelische Kirche Kusterdingen (OA. Tübingen)." Since this is a church, we may want to look further - most of the early church records likely have been turned over to an Archive.

Again in the Notes section of the Catalog entry, we find, "Mikrofilme aufgenommen von Manuskripten im Landeskirchlichen Archiv Stuttgart;" -- which, when translated is, "Microfilms recorded from manuscripts in the State Church Archives in Stuttgart." This is likely the legal record custodian -- or, at least, the holder the the record.

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To make this easier, please look at the FamilySearch Research Wiki article, "Württemberg, German Empire Church Records." You can click the title to view it. There is much information that is of value in this article. Particularly note Section 3,  Research in Church and State Archives.

I hope that this answers your questions.

MaureenE123

When I post my reply of 12.33 above, A van Helsdingen' reply of 12.15 pm was not displaying, so some of my comment turns out to be repeat information.

A van Helsdingen

And I didn't see the film numbers originally, so apologies @Roberta Egelston for the information I gave that wasn't relevant.

Orr Rozi

Have you seen the Family History Library Look up service? They may be able to help you with this. I am not sure if they will be able to share some of the actual film you seek but it is perhaps worth a try?

"For guests who cannot come to library to access the books, we will be offering a free look-up service. If you provide the title or call number of the book, along with the page numbers you want to have copied, we will email you a PDF copy. We ask that you be as specific as possible since we are unable, due to copyright restrictions, to copy a large number of pages from any one book. Please keep in mind that this is not a research service. That form is also for films that are in microfilm format ONLY. They will look through the film for the name needed. "

https://www.familysearch.org/family-history-library/family-history-library-records-look-up-service?fbclid=IwAR3wXaMlEjQ78uto0bFTH8TUcWtkgbHyYzitIOdB69pkprc_QeZm1DyCGzY

Roberta Egelston

Thank you to everyone who responded to my question. I appreciate your explaining this to me. Obviously, I was hoping to view the records for free, but I am glad to know Archion has them. You have saved me a trip to any affiliate or family history center. Thanks.