PLEASE privatise submissions of living people to Family Tree
I wish to formally request aa software enhancement to prevent living people being entered as 'deceased' without documentation.
This may occur when a submitter makes an individual entry, or perhaps uploads a file in ged.com. I have now successfully updated myself and another 44 people in my New Zealand family tree, though as others have married surnames I can't complete the task. Our privacy laws are infringed when such information on living people goes online.
As I work extensively with both Family Tree Maker and Ancestry.com, I believe your software should also privatise living people by:
- warning any submitter making an individual entry
- automatically privatising anyone born less than 110 years ago if bulk uploads are made
Thank you for considering my suggestion.
Joan Blackburn
Comments
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Joan
I totally, both, 'here' your frustration; and, 'understand' your concern ...
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron, like yourself ...
And, I am not that well educated; and, I am certainly not a scholar of any kind ...
As such ...
I am confused ...
[ And, I am easily confused ... ]
And, in more way than one ...
I DO NOT work in/with/through any of the "Third Party" Applications, that are "Certified" to work with "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'; such as, "Family Tree Maker"; and/or, "Ancestry.com"; and/or, "Roots Magic"; and/or, "Ancestral Quest"; and/or, the like ...
I ONLY work DIRECTLY in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ...
.
Please do not take this the wrong way ...
This is not said to offend ...
.
But ...
That said ...
Please advise ...
HOW do you, EXPECT, the "System" (ie. 'FamilySearch'), from PREVENTING Users/Patrons, from ENTERING (whether, "Manually"; or, through, a "Transfer" or "GEDCOM File") individuals/persons as "Deceased", who ARE, in fact, actually still "Living"!!!???
That would be IMPOSSIBLE ...
And ...
WHAT do you mean by "Documentation"!!!???
IF, by "Documentation" you mean, "Sources"; THEN, I am afraid to inform you that, NOT "All", of the Records, from the various Countries and Unions throughout the World, are available 'On-Line'; or, for that matter, even available to request/obtain/purchase; especially, in many places, for people 'Born' LESS than x100 Years ago.
The ONLY option in the aforementioned circumstances, where "Sources" CANNOT be "Attached", is to add "Reason Statements" and "Notes" to verify situations.
The PROBLEM/ISSUE being that Users/Patrons can add ANY "gobbledygook" they like, in the "Reason Statements" and "Notes"; and, the "System" CANNOT, differentiate; nor, verify.
Please advise ...
HOW can the "System" (ie. 'FamilySearch'), can be EXPECTED to, both, CONFIRM; and, VERIFY, that an individual/person who was 'Born' LESS than x110 Years ago, is ACTUALLY "Dead"/"Deceased", from "All" the various Countries and Unions througtou the World!!!???
As an aside ...
Users/Patrons MUST take on CERTAIN "Responsibility" themselves ...
According to the, "FamilySearch Terms of Use"; and, "FamilySearch Content Submission Agreement", of 'FamilySearch', when one "Registers" to become a User/Patron, one IS then "Responsible" for ALL the "Content" that one "Contributes" (ie. "Submits); and, that INCLUDES, whether or not, an individual/person is "Living" or "Deceased"; so, UNLESS one CAN confirm/verify that an individual/person is "Deceased"; THEN, one must enter them in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' as "Living".
Now ...
That said ...
As to the, "GEDCOM Files"; or, "Transfer" (from "Third Party" Applications), that being the "Upload" into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ...
As far as I am aware ...
[ And, I stand corrected, if a am wrong ... ]
(1) ANY, "Living" individuals/persons, in a "GEDCOM File", that is "Upload", into the "Genealogies" Part of 'FamilySearch', can ONLY be 'seen' by the User/Patron who "Uploaded" that File - they CANNOT be 'seen' by any OTHER User/Patron.
(2) "Living" individuals/persons, in a "GEDCOM File", will NOT; and, CANNOT, be transferred (ie. "Uploaded") into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
(3) "Living" individuals/persons, from "Third Party" Applications, transferred (ie. "Uploaded") into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', WILL be 'Transferred' as "Living".
Here is a "Knowledge Article" in 'FamilySearch', regarding "GEDCOM Files":
How do I copy information from my GEDCOM file into Family Tree?
Unfortunately ...
That all said ...
There is NO way, for the "System" (ie. 'FamilySearch') to, CONFIRM; or, VERIFY, either way, whether or not, that an individual/person is, "Living" or "Deceased".
The, CONFIRMATION; or, VERIFICATION, as to, whether or not, an individual/person is, "Living" or "Deceased", IS really the SOLE "Responsibility" of the Users/Patrons (ie. us).
Whereas ...
IF, 'FamilySearch', becomes; or, is made, aware of the situation, that an individual/person, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', who is recorded as being "Deceased", is in fact, still "Living'; THEN, 'FamilySearch" WILL take the necessary steps to rectify that situation (and, change their 'Status' to "Living").
The old proverb is very appropriate here ...
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.".
'FamilySearch' can, Teach and Train; and, even, Require or Mandate, that one, CONFIRMS; or, VERIFIES, that an individual/person is "Dead"/"Deceased", otherwise one MUST enter them as "Living".
But, 'FamilySearch' CANNOT be expected to, CONFIRM; or, VERIFY, that/such in EACH and EVERY case, for ALL the individuals/persons entered by ALL User/Patrons.
'FamilySearch', CANNOT; and, SHOULD NOT, "Stop" Users/Patrons from entering individuals/persons, who were 'Born' LESS than x110 Years ago; as, being "Dead"/"Deceased".
There are COUNTLESS individuals/persons, who were 'Born' LESS than x110 Years ago, that ARE, in fact, "Dead"/"Deceased".
.
And ...
Most importantly ...
We ALL make MISTAKES ...
NONE of us are PERFECT ...
.
I know that this does not help; but, I hope that this gives you some perspective.
Just my thoughts.
Again, this is not meant to offend.
Brett
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I have just had try and edit my tree. Someone has incorrectly added my Uncle and stated that he is deceased. I’ve tried to change this before but the “program” will not allow me. And yes, I’m sure he alive, unless he has past in the last couple of hours.
Also, it would be great if others couldn’t “hijack” my tree. Someone added 13 siblings to my grandfather’s family in another country which he never visited. It’s frustrating that I can’t fix my own tree.
Also, if a person is living their dates should not show to anyone else that may use a personal tree.
Security needs to be fixed. And for the love of God let us email or message our issues without having to enter our phone number. I don’t need anymore spam phone calls.
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On the points you raise:
- I believe you need to complete the box that appears when you are attempting to change the status from Deceased to Living, as such changes are subject to approval by FamilySearch. (See screenshot below.)
- Nobody is actually "hijacking" your tree, because the FamilySearch Family Tree model is a communal, open-edit one, whereby anyone can make changes to any deceased individual in the program. Many of us get exasperated by the unreasonable behaviour of some users (e.g. adding extra "siblings" that never lived anywhere near the family in question). It sometimes takes me a couple of days to sort out this kind of mess, but that is the downside of working with a program like Family Tree, I'm afraid. You CAN fix the errors, but it can be complicated and time-consuming, I agree.
- The details of those individuals with LIVING status can only be seen be the person who created an ID for that person. To meet my own concerns about privacy and security (e.g. possible hacking or bugs in the system), I do not enter details of living persons - or indeed those deceased persons belonging to my or my parents' generation, I keep this detail in my personal databases (e.g. RootsMagic or Family Tree Maker). If you do not feel sufficiently assured about such privacy concerns, I suggest you do not add any details of living persons to Family Tree - just your own, personal software package.
- I have not encountered any place in FamilySearch where the input of a telephone number is mandatory. Please advise where you are finding the situation to be otherwise.
This box appears when trying to change Deceased status to Living:
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Shelley
FYI
.
In relation to ... "it would be great if others couldn’t “hijack” my tree".
Pleas be aware ...
We do not have our OWN "Tree" in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
We ONLY have "Branches" (ie. Ancestral" lines), that are interconnected, in this SINGLE "One" World "Tree", for all of us, that is "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is NOT like 'On-Line' "Websites" (eg. "Ancestry_com"; or "MyHeritage_com"; or, the like); and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes (eg, the OLD, now no longer supported, "PAF"; or, "Ancestral Quest"; or, the like).
We DO NOT have "Private"/"Personal" 'Trees' in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' like other 'On-Line' "Websites"; and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes.
We do not even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, the "Deceased" individuals/persons in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is built on a "Open Edit" Platform - hence, why any registered User/Patron can "Edit" (ie. Add, Delete; and/or, Change) ANY "Deceased" individual/person in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
.
In relation to ... Changing the 'Status', of an individual/person, from "Deceased", to "Living"
IF, you had an individual/person, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch", in your "Ancestral" Lines, recorded as "Living"; THEN, please be aware that ONLY 'You' would 'see' that "Living" individual/person; as, they reside in your "Private Spaces" - NO Other User/Patron can 'see' that "Living" individual/person.
Whereas ...
IF, you had ANOTHER User/Patrons enters the SAME individual/person, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch"; and, recorded them as "Deceased"; THEN, that is ANOTHER matter entirely.
Now ...
IF, it can be PROVED that, BOTH, the "Living" individual/person that reside in your "Private Spaces"; and, the "Deceased" individual/person added by the Other User/Patron, ARE, the SAME person; THEN, you have some Options:
[ And, this is what is supposed to be able to happen ... ]
▬ You can BEGIN the process, of "Changing" the 'Status', of that currently "Deceased" individual/person, to "Living"
[ In this case, it will "Create" a "Support" Case; where, if 'FamilySearch' agrees, they will "Change" the 'Status'; which, will "Move", the NOW "Living" individual/person, to the "Private Spaces", of the Other User/Patron ]
▬ You can 'Message' the Other User/Patron, advising them that the "Deceased" individual/person, that they have entered, is ACTUALLY still "Living"; and, request that they "Change" the 'Status', from "Deceased", to "Living".
Failing any (reasonable) response or action; as, requested in that SECOND Option
▬ You can INITAITE that FIRST Option.
[ I have been there, done that - it worked ... ]
IF, as you indicate, that is NOT happening; THEN, you SHOULD raise a "Support" Case, on the matter, with 'FamilySearch'.
.
Here are some "Knowledge Articles" in 'FamilySearch'
How do I change the status from deceased to living in Family Tree?
How does Family Tree determine whether a person is living or deceased?
Who can see my living relatives in Family Tree?
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/who-can-see-my-living-relatives-in-family-tree
Why does a person in my Family Tree private space have multiple contributors?
Finally ...
.
"Security"; or, more so, "Privacy", in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch" is quite 'tight' ...
As advised above ...
ONLY you, would 'see' any "Living" individuals/persons, that you "Created", in 'Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'; as, they reside in your "Private Spaces" - NO Other User/Patron can 'see' those "Living" individuals/persons.
.
In regard to submitting a "Support" Case ...
You DO NOT have to enter an actual Telephone Number ...
Just enter about x10 "Zeros" (ie. 0000000000 )
That has been working for me, for quite some time.
.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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I believe it would be great if we could get an automatic living to deceased change if the person is over 120 years old. Because after I pass, I dont believe my children will look into family tree that I have built but my grandchildren might. I have over 200 people in my family tree that I have added. I would like for them to possibly link to my research. I have many that are living in my family tree and once I am gone they will still be living even if they are dead. I know others can totally turn your tree on its head just because of merges. However, that can be resolved with alot of work. I dont think that it should be fair for people to be able to merge I to trees unless it is a collective merge, say 10 people when it is far enough back that the people that have been doing the research on the tree have reached a dead end and have had no activity. I have changed my tree back to previous changes so much that it is quite frustrating. It is good to have your tree downloaded onto another app so you can return back to previous. Many people have same names as others and people get confused with names. This being said I think that there should be something to keep people from merging unless that have sources that prove otherwise. Like, census, birth, bible, marriage and they should be able to be combined without loosening the original research. For instance a section that shows previos merges. Or at least a moderator to approve merges. For instance they look at the sources of the people concerned and approve because of major sources match. I am constantly going through sources as well. Many people attach inaccurate sources as well, because they know nothing about family tree research.
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Yet, another reason for FS to remind contributors NOT to put living persons in the family search tree. GEDCOMS, are not excusable, nor are they a "source".....
but I repeat myself.
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monkeyshang
FYI
We have been advised, that 'FamilySearch', is looking into things such as, 'Inheritance"; and, "Bequeathing", with regard to the, "Living" individuals/persons; and, "Memories", of 'FamilySearch' Accounts of Users/Patrons who pass away/die.
I believe that there has also been some 'talk' about consideration of, when a User/Patron become to ill/unable to continue with the work; and, them having given/granted a, "Power of Attorney"; or, "Enduring Power of Attorney"; or, the like, to an immediate Family member.
Such 'looking into' by 'FamilySearch', will take some time; as, it is NOT as 'easy'/'simple'; as, we would think.
There are MANY issue involved - "Privacy" being paramount.
.
I totally, 'hear'; and, 'understand', your 'frustration' ... been there, done that, still do ...
.
In regard to "Merging"/'Combining" ...
Most User/Patrons have enough 'trouble' effecting a "Single" person "Merge"/"Combine" ...
I would hate to thing, the absolute MESS, that SOME User/Patrons would make, with a "Collective" (ie. Mutiple) persons "Merge"/"Combine" ...
You are not alone ...
'Yes' ...
Most of us have suffered the excessive work caused by INCORRECT "Merging"/"Combining".
Not to mention the ... 'frustration' ... putting it 'mildly' ...
[ It took me TWO (x2) solid Weeks, to separate two (2) families INCORRECTLY "Merged"/"Combined" ... ]
And ...
'Yes' ...
Quite a number of Users/Patrons MAINTAIN their OWN "Private" Database(s).
As ...
We do not have our OWN "Tree" in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
We ONLY have "Branches" (ie. Ancestral" lines), that are interconnected, in this SINGLE "One" World "Tree", for all of us, that is "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is NOT like 'On-Line' "Websites" (eg. "Ancestry_com"; or "MyHeritage_com"; or, the like); and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes (eg, the OLD, now no longer supported, "PAF"; or, "Ancestral Quest"; or, the like).
We DO NOT have "Private"/"Personal" 'Trees' in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' like other 'On-Line' "Websites"; and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes.
We do not even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, the "Deceased" individuals/persons in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
And, we do not even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, Our OWN ("Deceased") Ancestors (or, Immediate Family) the in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is built on a "Open Edit" Platform - hence, why any registered User/Patron can "Edit" (ie. Add, Delete; and/or, Change) ANY "Deceased" individual/person in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
.
As to "Sources" ...
I agree, that ...
IF, "Sources" are attcahed; and/or, of "Details"/"information" included; THEN, I wish Users/Patrons would take the time to investigate and CONSIDER; if such are ACTUALLY the same people; BEFORE, taking action to "Merge"/"Combine".
Just because, "John SIMITH"; and, "John SMITH", have the SAME "Name"; and, their Wives/Spouses has the SAME 'Given' "Name", DOES NOT mean that they are the same individual/person; especially, when the were, BORN; and, LIVED, (and, DIED) on DIFFERENT "Continents" (and, their Children were DIFFERENT)!
On another note ...
I REALLY "Wish", that Users/Patrons, would UNDERSTAND that, "Sources" (ie. 'On-Line' "Documentation"), either, within 'FamilySearch'; or, "Partner" Websites, are NOT "Always" available, in/for many Countries and Unions throughout the World.
Many of us Users/Patrons, with Ancestors from certain Countries, are really LUCKY, that there is a HUGE amount of available 'On-Line' "Sources", that we can find and attach.
But ...
That said ...
There are LIKEWISE, many other Users/Patrons, with Ancestors from certain Countries, where there is VERY little, if any, 'On-Line' "Sources", that is available.
All that is available, for those unlucky Users/Patrons, is to INCULDE the "Details", from wherever "Information" that can be obtained; as/in, the likes of "Reason Statements" or "Notes".
In short ... due to aforementioned ... "Source" CANNOT be a REQUIREMENT in 'FamilySearch'.
Whereas ... due to aforementioned ... "Details" as/in, the likes of, "Reason Statements" or "Notes", is the go.
.
Previous "Merges"
There IS an area where previous "Merges" are available.
Previous "Merges" CAN be found in the "ChangeLog" of an individual/person ...
Go to the 'right-hand-side' of the an individual's/person's "Person/Details" page/screen ...
Go to the THIRD Section down, "Latest Changes" ...
Select that "Show ALL" ...
That opens into/takes one to the "ChangeLog" for that individual/person ...
Take the time to, go down that list of changes, to 'see' if you find ANY "Merges" ...
Or, use the "Filter' and select "Merges".
Remember, there may NOT have been any "Merges" ... in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'
[ Unfortunately, we CANNOT 'see' any of the OLD "Merges"/"Combines" that occurred in the forerunner, "New.FamilySearch" of 'FamilySearch... ]
.
'Moderator' to approve "Merges" ...
'No', we DO NOT, want; or, need, a 'Moderator' to approve "Merges".
NO work would get done, if a 'Moderator' was REQUIRED to approve "Merges".
[ This has been 'touted' before, the 'Cons' significantly outweigh the 'Pros" ... ]
And, there is a LOT of work that needs doing.
.
Finally ...
We ALL make MISTAKES ...
NONE of us are PERFECT ...
But ...
That said ...
I just wish some Users/Patrons would take MORE, care; and, consideration ...
.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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Bonnie
"Living" individuals/persons ...
"Living" individuals/persons, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', can ONLY be 'seen', in the "Private Spaces", by/of the User/Patron, in which they reside.
NO "Other" User/Patron, can 'see', ANY of the "Living" individuals/persons, that reside in the "Private Spaces", of 'Another" User/Patron.
You may be a User/Patron who is NOT a Member of the Church ...
The "Ancestral" Lines, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', of Users/Patrons, who are Members of the Church, were "Preloaded"/"Prepopulated" with OUR Immediate "Living" Family members (ie. Parents; Spouses; and, Children), from (Our) Membership records of the Church, by 'FamilySearch'.
So ...
That said ...
There is NO reason WHY User/Patrons should NOT put/enter "Living" individuals/persons, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
Such "Living" individuals/persons, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', are PRIVATE.
And ...
The are quite some, Users/Patrons of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', who are Member of the Church; and, their EXTENDED Family "Connections"/"Links" are quite EXTENSIVE; so, many of us ADD the "Living" individuals/persons, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', to "Build" a "Bridge", to connect/link us to our extended Family members - this helps us work more closely with extended family members who are Users/Patrons.
Generally, Users/Patrons of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', who are NOT Member of the Church, do not find the need to make such connections/links; but, I assure you, that some do; as, I have helped some do so.
GEDCOM Files ...
I totally agree ...
GEDCOM Files are NOT "Sources" ...
Just like, OTHER 'Trees' in the likes of, "Ancestry"[.com]; and/or, "MyHeritage"; and/or, etc, are NOT "Sources".
I would suggest that the "Uploading" of GEDCOM Files, into "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', should be STOPPED "Immediately"; and, should NOT be allowed.
Just my thoughts
Brett
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Living people in tree....actually, others can and do put living persons in the trees. I've had that happen in mine...someone put name, vitals and a birth certificate on the tree of a living family member. And when I contracted FS, I was told to ask the contributor to take it down, that FS could not do that. I did, in fact, ask the contributor and she obliged and apologized. she said, she "did not know that living persons should not be put in the tree." She was not in any way related by the way.
So would not be a good idea to clearly state the policy at point of entry?
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Bonnie
Just quickly; as, it getting late for me ...
IF, another User/Patron put, a "Living" individual/person, within your "Ancestral" Lines; THEN, in fact, you would NOT 'See' that "Living" individual/person.
Whereas ...
IF, I am understanding the matter; THEN, ...
What I think that you are referencing is that ...
Another User/Patron put, an individual/person, within your "Ancestral" Lines, with the 'Status' of "Deceased"; whereas, in fact, to your knowledge, that particular individual/person is STILL "Living"; and, NOT, "Deceased".
Is that the case?
IF, that was the case; THEN, in fact, as far as I am aware, 'FamilySearch', CAN "Change" the 'Status', of that individual/person, from "Living", to "Deceased"; and, when they do that, that NOW "Living" individual/person, would "Disappear" from your VIEW (and, ALL Other Users/Patrons), and, would finish-up in the "Private Spaces" of the User/Patron who "Created" them; and, ONLY be 'Seen' by that User/Patron.
I DO NOT know or understand WHY 'FamilySearch' did not do that ...
Perhaps, 'FamilySearch' just wanted you to "Collaborate" with that Other User/Patron, to resolve the matter.
You still DO NOT seem to understand ...
"Living" individuals/persons, CAN be put/entered, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ... there is NOTHING that is WRONG with that ...
"Living" individuals/persons DO "Exist", in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ...
I know, for a fact that, there are at least, SEVEN (x7) versions of the "Living" ME ... probably quite a few more
At least, one in MY 'Account'; one in my Wife's 'Account; and, one in each of OUR Children's 'Accounts' ...
NOT to forget, to 'mention', the other versions, of the "Living" ME, in 'Accounts' of our other extended Family.
But, thankfully, EACH of those various versions of the "Living" ME, can ONLY be 'seen' INDIVIDUALLY by the User/Patron, in the "Private Spaces", in which/whom they reside.
As, I have NOT been able to 'find'/'see' any "Deceased" ME's in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', to date.
Users/Patrons, putting/entering individuals/persons, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', with the 'Status' of "Deceased", when, in fact, they are STILL "Living", is another matter entirely.
Just some quick thoughts.
Brett
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Brett,
My husband, still living, was entered as just that, LIVING, by an unrelated person, who also entered his birth certificate, she found on Ancestry. After contacting FS about this, I was told to settle it with the contributor. I very nicely explained the contributor that my husband felt the birth certificate, and entering his info was not ok with him, she apologized profusely and between us, the birth certificate was removed. Husband is listed by initials now as a compromise.
I did not misunderstand, husband was entered as living, not deceased.
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Bonnie
G'Day ... morning ...
Hm ...
I just DO NOT understand, how YOU could 'see', an individual/person (despite being you Husband), in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', who was entered with the 'Status' of "Living", by another User/Patron.
I have never 'heard' of that happening ...
I can understand, if the other User/Patron entered your Husband as "Deceased"; but, NOT, "Living" ...
I have checked the "System", previously, with/across my various Family members 'Accounts' ...
When, any of us, individually enters an individual/person, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', with the 'Status' of "Living", NONE of the rest of us, in the Family, can 'see' those "Living" individuals/persons - ONLY the Family member who entered them ...
Brett
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