With parenthesis marks forbidden, how do I write alternative spellings of my ancestors names
I've noticed that parenthesis marks are no longer allowed in the fields where first and last names are listed. That is a major problem for me. I used parentheses in many records in my very extensive family tree to indicate different spellings of people's names. Now all those records have red exclamation marks next to them - and the system won't let me use parentheses in new records even though I NEED to do it.
Different spellings were common where my ancestors lived because due to historical events (borders changing), different languages were used to record people's life events. So, for example, a person was born with a surname spelled one way, but by the time they died, that surname was written in a different way. I would always write the original spelling first, and then put the altered, or alternative, spelling in parenthesis. That was very useful - because it helps locate additional records that may have later (non-original) spellings. (Sometimes it's even impossible to figure out which spelling is original, as multiple spellings of the same surname were used - so I would put the less common spelling in parens.)
Now that the system will not let me use parenthesis - how do I indicate alternative spellings? If I just write them side by side, it really looks silly - multiple very similar names. Why can't we use parenthesis? Could we still use them, but insert an empty space between the parenthesis sign and the person's name - so the system would not get confused by the parenthesis sign right next to the name?
What is the solution to this problem?
Comments
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FYI
The use of "Invalid" Characters, such as "Parenthesis"; and, the like, in the "Name" Field, in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', has been in existence for some time now ...
There is a very simple way, to add/include, the variant "Spellings", of the "Name", of an individual/person in 'Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
You can ADD the variant "Spellings", of the "Name"; as, "Alternate Names" in the "Other Information" Section, which is the section below the "Vitals" Section.
Here is a "Knowledge Article" in 'FamilySearch':
𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐈 𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐧𝐚𝐦𝐞𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐅𝐚𝐦𝐢𝐥𝐲 𝐓𝐫𝐞𝐞?
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/how-to-enter-names-in-family-tree
You will NOT need to add the "Invalid" Characters, such as "Parenthesis"; or, the like, you can include the (many) different versions of the "Spellings", of the "Name", separately, each on its own separate line.
Each of those different versions of the "Spellings", of the "Name"; as, "Alternate Names" in the "Other Information" Section, will be 'found', if a User/Patron (including yourself) 'Searches' for a particular version of the "Name".
I hope this helps.
Brett
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Thanks, Brett, for the response. But entering alternative spellings in a different field (such as the "Other Information" Section) does not make them easily noticeable when you look at the person's name in various other views (in the tree, for example, or while searching for it). As you can see, I like using parens ;-)
Some of those alternative spellings are of equal importance - so how do I decide which spelling goes in the main field where the name is listed, and which gets buried in "Other Information"? Most of us rarely look in "Other Information".
From the user's standpoint, it's much better to be able to see alternative spellings in the Name field in any view (including what you see when you search for the person).
I guess, I'm just curious, why was it possible to use parenthesis signs before, and now it is not? Who made the decision to ban parens and why? Since people were using them, it indicates they had a need for them. (It's like with a desire path in a park - it shows where a path is needed.)
Thanks again.
Eva
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Eva
'Answers'; and, 'Comments' ...
[1] Question: How do I decide which spelling goes in the main field where the name is listed, and which gets buried in "Other Information"?
Short Answer: I ALWAYS add the "Name" at, "Birth"; or, "Christening" (ie. prior to 'Civil Registration').
For those who were BORN after the time of 'Civil Registration' for "Births"; "Deaths'; and, "Marriages", I ALWAYS enter the "Name" according to the 'Civil Registration' for "Birth".
For those prior to the time of 'Civil Registration' for "Births"; "Deaths'; and, "Marriages", I ALWAYS enter the "Name" according to "Christening"/"Baptismal" record, provide there are such.
IF, there are, neither, of the aforementioned, I ALWAYS enter the "Name" according to WHATEVER is the earliest "Documented" version of the "Name"; but, that can "Change" id subsequently located "Official" Documents differ.
I include ALL "Other" variant "Spelling" version; as, "Alternate Names" in the "Other Information" Section
[2] Comment: it's much better to be able to see alternative spellings in the Name field in any view
Short Answer: There is NOT enough "Space" to display ALL the "Versions" of an person's/individual's "Name", in the various "Views" (ie. Pages/Screens") of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
SOME individuals/persons have a number of (Legal/Official) versions of their "Name".
I have an Ancestor/Relative who has THREE (x3) DIFFERENT 'Legal'/'Official' versions of his "Name", one in "Birth" Registration; one in "Marriage" Registration; and. one in "Death" Registration. ALL with DIFFERENT 'Given' and 'Family Name'/'Surnames'. I am still trying to find out WHY!
[3] Question(s):
Why was it possible to use parenthesis signs before, and now it is not?
Who made the decision to ban parens and why?
Short Answer: There was a "Change", some time ago, to the Programme, by 'FamilySearch', to DISALLOW the use of "Invalid" Characters, such as "Parenthesis"; and, the like; but, unfortunately, I cannot recall the EXACT reason - but, they had/have their reason(s).
Furthermore ...
Just because User/Patrons used to USE the "Invalid" Characters, such as "Parenthesis"; and, the like, DOES NOT mean that such is a good idea or practice.
There are a couple of things that one needs to note ...
"Family Tree" (really, it predecessor, "New.FamilySearch") of 'FamilySearch', was a Programme, ORIGIANNLY "Created", by the Church, for the use of Members of the Church, in relation to their/our religious beliefs.
Some time later, "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', was latter made available to ALL, whether or NOT one was a Member of the Church.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is NOT like 'On-Line' "Websites" (eg. "Ancestry_com"; or "MyHeritage_com"; or, the like); and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes (eg, the OLD, now no longer supported, "PAF"; or, "Ancestral Quest"; or, the like).
We DO NOT have "Private"/"Personal" 'Trees' in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' like other 'On-Line' "Websites"; and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes.
We do not even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, the "Deceased" individuals/persons in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is built on a "Open Edit" Platform - hence, why any registered User/Patron can "Edit" (ie. Add, Delete; and/or, Change) ANY "Deceased" individual/person in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
Many Users/Patrons MAINTAIN their OWN "Private"/"Personal" 'Tree' (or, 'Trees') in 'On-Line' "Websites" (eg. "Ancestry_com"; or "MyHeritage_com"; or, the like); and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes (eg, the OLD, now no longer supported, "PAF"; or, "Ancestral Quest"; or, the like).
The latter is the BEST way that one can DO what YOU desire.
With the the aforementioned process, one CAN still use "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'; but, do and maintain all their Research Work outside of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
[ ps: I DO NOT; but, MANY do ... I work solely in/with "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ]
I know this does not help; but, I hope this gives you some perspective.
Brett
ps: Hopefully others will have a better response/answer for you; and, will join in this post of yours.
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Thank you, Brett. I have to digest it all. I really like the Family Tree function in FamilySearch, I recommend it to everyone, and don't have the ability (time-wise) to use other programs.
It did happen to me that someone changed my "stuff" in a few records that I created, and it didn't make sense. When I emailed that person asking for an explanation, he/she did not respond. So I'm going to change it right back. If I mark those records with a star (indicating that I'm following them), will I get an email from FamilySearch if that person tries to change it again?
By the way, the instructions sheet for entering deceased people's names says that married women should be listed under their maiden names. I have entered thousands of women by listing their maiden AND married names on the same line. If they were married more than once, I would enter the later married name as well. It's so very helpful because it immediately shows you all the surnames that the woman carried in her life - and I see immediately who she was married to. So now I'm supposed to change all of that and remove their married names? I see no benefit in it at all.
And what about hyphenated last names? Is hyphen a forbidden character too?
Eva
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Eva
I am sorry for my delayed response ...
My Wife and I were at our local "Family History Centre", of the Church, today.
'Yes', the "Open Edit" nature of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', with the ability for ANY (Registered) User/Patron to "Change" the details of "Deceased" individuals/persons, even those that they are NOT closely related, can; and, does, cause problems/issues; but, that is a 'trade off' that we must endure to be part of this SINGLE "One" World "Tree".
We do not have our OWN "Tree" in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
We ONLY have "Branches" (ie. Ancestral" lines), that are interconnected, in this SINGLE "One" World "Tree", for all of us, that is "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
As to ... 'Messages' ...
DO NOT expect a response.
We DO NOT always get a response.
There are often NO responses to 'Messages' (and, "E-mails") we send.
There are many reasons for NO response:
[ some; but, NOT limited to ... ]
▬ User/Patron has Died themselves
▬ User/Patron DOES NOT know about 'Messages' of "User Messages" of 'FamilySearch'
▬ User/Patron is an infrequent User/Patron of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'
▬ User/Patrons may have STOPPED using "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'
▬ User/Patrons may choose NOT to respond
Such is life ...
'Yes', as there is no response, go ahead and make the necessary changes ...
And ...
'Yes', that is the way it should be, for a "Married" Woman, the 'Family Name' / 'Surname', recorded in "Last Name" Sub-Field, in the "Vital" Section, of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch', SHOULD always be that of their "Birth" (ie. "Maiden") 'Family Name'/'Surname'.
Of Course, the EXCEPTION being, if there has been a "Legal" Name "Change" - EXCLUDING that due to "Marriage".
Plus, for a "Married" Woman, the "Married" 'Family Name'/'Surname' should NOT be recorded ANYWHERE in the "Name" Field, of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
The "Married" 'Family Name'/'Surname', for a "Married" Woman, should ALWAYS be recorded; as, "Alternate Name", in the "Other Information" Section - one, for each time, they get "Married".
As to ... Hyphens ...
As far as I am aware ...
"Hyphens" in a Two (x2) [ or, MORE ] Part "Name" (either, FIRST; and/or, LAST), are NOT a problem/issue ...
"Hyphens" are NOT 'forbidden' characters ...
Brett
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All
Related post ...
Ideas > [ Topic ] FamilySearch Community ...
𝐖𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐞𝐝 𝐚 𝐰𝐚𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐫𝐝 𝐚𝐥𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬 𝐧𝐚𝐦𝐞𝐬 (𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭)
Brett
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All
Another related post, by another User/Patron ...
Ideas > [ Topic ] Family Tree ...
𝐏𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐬 ( ) 𝐢𝐧 𝐧𝐚𝐦𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐥𝐝𝐬
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/84134/please-allow-parentheses-in-name-fields
Brett
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Each person's page has several areas to be used for different bits of information. To expect all the information you want to see to be put in the area you want to put it in, is to under-utilize all the other wonderful provided areas that are helpful to other patrons looking for such information and who are abiding by the guidelines to only put the maiden name in the name field.
From another user's perspective; mine. It is quite confusing to see all kinds of alternative names put into the name fields to show all the different names a person had during their life.
When you say "most of us rarely look in the 'other information area' ", I sure hope that that statement is not true. It is mho, and hope, that most familysearch patrons abide by the guidelines to use the different areas of a person's page for the intended purpose.
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I understand the decision and the need to not have symbols in the vitals, particularly the name.
The use of parentheses, but only in the suffix, would be greatly appreciated. I implore you to allow it. Please allow the parenthesis ( ). Following is why it is necessary to be able to add it into the suffix of the name.
Contrary to FS statements, in practice Adding these alternative names in the name field DOES NOT prevent people from merging erroneously. It only makes searching easier. More alternative names also have the bad effect of making too many bad matches surface. It is a balance.
I passionately research extensively across Denmark. I don’t do just my family. I connect from the Danish side into the (often frustrated) American side with a lot of experience and skill. I research special projects, village projects and mariner records. I also volunteer my skill for other American-Danish Familysearch users who have problems in their trees because they lost track, or something was merged that never should have been. I fix families, fix profiles. I unmerge and reconstruct messes. Last year, I connected over 15,000 sources, most with real detailed reason statements. No blanks or vague reference to “see source”, “birth record attached” or “died”. I detail the whole record and add/edit/explain. My accuracy and details are the guide for the next researcher to follow. (My apologies if you find my early work without all the reason statements)
My experiences below will show you the need for the parentheses ( ). I agree that none of the other symbols have valid uses in Digital profiles. But the ( ) is very important. This is not old school genealogy where you make a corner note. (Btw: I’m not old)
Denmark has approximately 2000 official names. People are named in combinations of those. Which means A LOT of people have the same name. Some even have the same birthdate. EX: there were 3,484,412 Jens Nielsens born about 1874 in Denmark. It is a real number. They also used a patronymic naming system. Denmark is not a huge.
Patronymic naming: (naming after the father’s first name)
On Wikipedia, it is astounding how many countries have used and also still use patronymic names. So ( ) is not just for Danish profiles. Further Colonial immigrants recycled and reused names a lot also.
Danish people used patronymic naming legally up to about 1850. A family often had alternating names of Jens Nielsen, Niels Jensen and then also named other children Jens Jensen, Niels Nielsen, among other often passed down names, depending on the first name of the father. To confuse the children’s lineage further, widowed women would sometimes marry a man with same first or last name as the previous husband. This leads to (real example) Anders Nielsen the younger and Anders Nielsen the older, born 10 years apart. It is even in census records that way but they married latter without the addition descriptions. How do you write that without parentheses?
Important use of ( ):
Reused names:
If an infant died, they often reused the name. A family could have more than 1 child named with the same name. Then have a surviving child of the same name. This was the norm. I know of 3 deceased infants in a family with the same name and then a surviving child. They had all been merged together. None of them had reason statements in the records or details in the vitals. This is extremely frustrating because it causes erroneously merges.
To combat this, I add the word infant into the suffix like Jens Nielsen (Infant). It means it is a separate child. And therefore:
1, be careful adding additional sources because they were not alive to be confirmed or married (seen it)
2, don’t merge with another unless investigated the dates.
How the different methods of clarification would appear in the profile image:
Jen Nielsen (Infant) (preferred)
Jens Nielsen-Infant. (with the allowed hyphen)
Jens Nielsen Infant
Last two appear that they could be French (and not Danish) with parents last names of Nielsen and Infant. It is also not a factual name, so, I would not want to use that.
Law name change
Families applied the 1850 law to end patronymic names many different ways. Sometimes it was different even within the family but in records they used different variations. Using Jens, the son of Jens Nielsen. Traditionally his name would be Jens Nielsen.
ABC are names that the family would arbitrarily assign to themselves depending on their decisions.
a: Jens Nielsen Nielsen: If the family applied the law using only the current last name of the father tacked onto the name the child was using.
b: Jens Nielsen Jensen: Some applied the law as using full name of father Niels Jensen. Or as Jens Niels Jensen. But he really didn’t have a middle name of Niels.
c: Jens Nielsen Lolland or Jens Lolland: If he was from a particular location (ex: Lolland) and there were too many, he might become Jens Nielsen Lolland or Jens Lolland. Then there could be another Jens Lolland in the area that needs clarification by adding the village name until the researcher figures out the family name.
Note that also some families stopped on the legal date but still had kids so named fluxed. Suffix with ( ) is really important there also.
Ex: all in one family Father: Niels Jensen
Son: Jens Nielsen
Daughter: Marie Nielsen Jensen
Another son: Niels Jensen Nielsen but he also came to America and became Nils Johnson.
Another very important use: Immigrants changed their names when they Americanized. Peder Mathisen Nicolaisen became Peter M. Niklasen and his children use that last name now. The American name is in suffix so name appears in profile as Peder Mathisen Nicolaisen (Peter M. Niklasen)
Currently, If any of the data in the vital needs to be changed, the ( ) is forced to be dismissed. His name visually becomes: Peder Mathisen Nicolaisen Peter M. Niklasen. That is wrong and confusing.
If either version goes away, the American family can’t find him, or worse, complain to me. 😔. If the Danish goes away, he is not searchable there and my Danish Aunts complain because they are unsure where he went. This is important for all of the Immigrants families whose names changed as they Americanized.
Both names are in the Other Information as Alternate names. It needs to be accurate for everyone. Two different profiles are not acceptable. Just having the additional names in the profile buried on the second page is not good enough because when a new researching family member comes along, they will not know what they are looking for or at and create a new profile, get stuck and give up. Meanwhile the gift was right there.
Accuracy is key: Example of Asker Vagn Pedersen. He became Pete Pedersen at work. The name was used by his wife’s relatives. Living relatives of the wife researched him in ancestry.com and created a completely different person with different parents based on his birthdate and Peter Pedersen. They refused to change it. I knew him. One of the many reasons I love Familysearch.com. is group source and accuracy. But bad stuff gets brought over from those sites. And we need a way to combat it. The parentheses add clarity.
Additional last names:
Many Danish families have them but didn’t always use them in records. Or they are in the image but not indexed. A recent researched example is family name of Kepp, Kjep, Kiep but, by probate, one ascendent became a Grubbe. Added to his name in the suffix adds clarity. As in Henrik Hansen Kiep (Grubbe).
Another use: When I unmerge and repair trees, it is often because of same names/ different locations with same or similar birth years with similar parents’ names. I sometimes must add a location in the suffix. I cannot do this now without it looking like it is part of the official name. This is also necessary when it is discovered two people of same names and same birthdates are merged together. After separating, a location in parentheses is often the best prevention of remerging. Mostly because the Familysearch system detects too many similarities and sparks a merge as the same person. There have been more than a few times for me to unmerge huge families because of one merge. Example 42 children and 125 sources for the father. Repairing trees is a specialty and requires extensive research ability and different kind of knowledge base to not lose people but get to the facts. Parentheses is imperative to be able to use.
Example: Jens Nielsen (Grenaa) denoting of Grenaa vs Jens Nielsen (Ebeltoft) of Ebeltoft, a nearby village. Without ( ) , their name, with the additional information still in the suffix would appear Jen Nielsen Grenaa or Jens Nielsen Ebeltoft, which is factually wrong because that is not their name.
I have also used it when following the wives, (first wife), (second wife). Adding it to the suffix of the child is the best tracking method. This is important use in the 1700’s census and before. Like when you don’t know the name but they are alluded to as in Jens (child of first wife) and Niels (child of second wife). You lose valuable unwritten research information if you can’t record it. This is not using the ? for a nonexistent mother. I don’t like the ? either as every child has a mother.
Confusing.
The parentheses can prevent a lot of the problems and help to “follow” the person through time. It is not a substitute for good research and notes. It is an aid to get the right information and prevent other researchers from coming along and unknowingly altering a profile. The information in the parentheses also adds awareness that someone else worked on the profile and to check it carefully.
All of the confusion described above is from my personal research experience. It can get really overwhelming for new researchers who just want to learn about their family. Please, please allow the parentheses.
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Re the hyphen. My parents are Danish. My last name is my mother’s two part hyphenated last names. Then my dad’s name, then my married name. And I have a middle name and no I am not aristocracy (lol) . I only use the hyphen in my mother’s names. But if I did what people suggest, The whole thing would look silly. It kinda does already just like it is. The hyphen needs to be carefully used. But sometimes a () is more realistic to use if it needs to be added to a marriage name in the SUFFIX to prevent confusion with other similar people. Like the case of two women, same names, same birthdate, close locations, married men of different last names. Putting it as an alternative name does not help because it is not noticeable.
Further the () and information (name or Detail) in Suffix are not searchable. The () is added to the profile name but still not algorithm searchable (to my knowledge) It is visually there when searching and my help indicate a researcher is getting the correct person.
As a dedicated researcher of Familysearch, this is a passionate plea to allow the () in the suffix.
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Ann
I 'here' what you are saying ...
And, I understand, somewhat ...
[ And, I do have, some, 'European' Ancestry ... ]
And, more importantly, I am NOT trying to, demean; or, down play, you response; nor, am I trying to offend ...
But ...
That said ...
Individuals/Persons are NOT Born with "Special" Characters [ie. \@#$%&*_+=|~/?><[]{}();:0123456789; and, especially, "Parentheses"] in their names.
And, generally, individuals/persons are NOT Born with the Words, such as, "Infant"; or, "Baby"; or, Twin/Triple/etc; or, the like, in their names.
I consider that ...
Such ("Special" Characters) should NOT be allowed to appear in the "Name" 'Field' in the "Vitals" Section.
And, Words, such as, "Infant"; or, "Baby"; or, Twin/Triple/etc; or, the like, should NOT be 'Entered'/'Included' in "Name" 'Field' in the "Vitals" Section
But, such ("Special" Characters) SHOULD be able to appear in the "Alternate Name" Field in the "Other Information" Section.
Whereas, I also acknowledge that, having such ("Special" Characters) in the "Alternate Name" Field in the "Other Information" Section MAY cause problems/issues with, the "Search Algorithm", of "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'. IF, it does; THEN, 'No', they should not be allowed there either.
"Commas" (","); and, "Periods" [ "Full Stops" ] ("."), ARE "Acceptable" Characters in ALL the "Name" Fields (ie. 'Title'; 'First Names'; 'Last Names'; and, 'Suffix').
Whereas, plus, "Numbers" [ "Numerics" ] ("0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9"), ARE somewhat "Special" Characters that are "Acceptable" Characters in the "Suffix" Sub-Field, of "Names".
What you have to remember is that ...
We do not have our OWN "Tree" in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
We ONLY have "Branches" (ie. Ancestral" lines), that are interconnected, in this SINGLE "One" World "Tree", for all of us, that is "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is NOT like 'On-Line' "Websites" (eg. "Ancestry_com"; or "MyHeritage_com"; or, the like); and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes (eg, the OLD, now no longer supported, "PAF"; or, "Ancestral Quest"; or, the like).
We DO NOT have "Private"/"Personal" 'Trees' in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' like other 'On-Line' "Websites"; and/or, 'standalone' personal (computer) programmes.
We do not even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, the "Deceased" individuals/persons in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
And, we are NOT even, own; or, manage; and, are NOT even responsible for, Our OWN Immediate Family or Ancestors in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch'
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is built on a "Open Edit" Platform'.
For, Our OWN, Research and Work, we SHOULD maintain, Our OWN, "Private" (and, "Personal") Database - of which there are a number of FREE, both, 'On-Line'; and/or, 'standalone', versions available.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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