you might be best to post to Latin American or Mexican groups
@Sociedad Genealogica y de Historia Familiar de Mexico
@Latin American Genealogy Research
Hi do you have a higher definition picture?
I can make out Feb 2nd of 1702 (or 1712) son of "Antonio de Guillen", but the mothers first name I cant see Aurora, but maybe Luiza? it is not very clear, maybe looking at the rest of the document I might be able to make from other handwritten samples.
I attached a lighten copy of the record..don't know if it helps. I am most interested in the sentence beginning "natural.."
appreciate your help.
I am not entirely sure it reads "Natural", that letter resembles more like an "H", maybe a second last name to Martines
As I read the record it says: "Cayetano Guillen Sentaplaza? (possibly a place name) a los diez días del mes de febrero de mil setecientos y doce año hijo legítimo de Antonio de Guillen y de Eruira? Martines natural del P. (appears to be an abbreviation for something like Población or Pueblo) de San Miguel tiene de señas alto de cuerpo, pelinegro, cavello (cabello) liso, blanco, (I added commas as I understood them to be) de edad de veinte y tres años entro en lugar y plaza de Antonio de Gusmas? a quien se le anoto _______________"
Translation: Cayatano Guillen Sentaplaza on the 10th day of the month of February of the year 1712, legitimate son of Antonio Guillen and of Eruira (Eriura, Ervira) Martines, native (that is born in) P. of San Miguel. He has for distinguishing marks: tall in body, dark-haired, smooth (straight) hair, white, 23 years of age, I enter in place and position of Antonio Gusmas who signed him up.
To clarify some of the question marks you need to reference surrounding entries to get a feel for what is said and how certain letters are written. The mother's name is definitely not Aurora and you are correct the word is "natural" meaning "native of".
THANK YOU so very much.I appreciate you spending your time to show me the Spanish as well as English.
I hope this is not too much of an imposition..I have been struggling with the 183 marriage document between felipe martinez and maria soto..I have the first part on felipe translated but the second part on Maria Soto is a mystery. If you could tell me what it says I would very much appreciate your help.
Let me first tell you that there is nothing of importance in the last part of this entry apart from the bride’s name and the fact that she was from the same town as the parish. If you are not Catholic you need to understand that prior to any marriage the priest had to post on the church door on three religious holidays (could be Sundays), the announcement (in English we call them banns) that these two people were getting married and ask if anyone knew why they shouldn’t be married. I suppose that his was to prevent marriage of people that were already married or that were too closely related. In this partial entry, I have replaced the abbreviations with the appropriate words and have corrected the spelling.
con Mariana Soto de esta jurisdicción: habiendose precedido a la sumaria información de su libertad y soltura y las tres canonicas amonestaciones que le dieron en tres días festivos inter ¿?ion solemna (the appear to be Latín words that I am not familiar with but Latin was often used in the entries,) los cuales fueron la atrás? (I’m guessing at this word but it doesn’t make any sense) de dicho mes Dominica primer de Adviento, la segunda el día ocho de la Imaculada Concepcion, y la tercera el día Dominica segunda de Adviento: no habiendo resultado impedimento alguno ni en la información ni pasadas las veinticuatro horas de la última: fueron testigos al tipo de la celebración, Jose Acosta, Juan Jose Sepulveda, y varios conocidos y feligreses; y que constancia lo firmo con el Señor cura Jose Antonio Aranbe??
Translation: with Mariana Soto of this jurisdiction; having been preceded by the summary information of their freedom and looseness (I have never seen this phraseology before but suspect that it means their freedom to legally marry) and the three canonical banns that were given on three holy days inter ?ion solemna which were the back (???) of said month (month mentioned in the first part of the entry), the first, Advent Sunday, the second, the eighth day of Immaculate Conception, the third, the second Sunday of Advent: there not being any impediment reported (because of the posting of the banns), nor in the information, nor the past twenty-four hours since the last one (bann): witnesses to the type of celebration were Jose Acosta, Juan Jose Sepulveda and several other known people and parishioners; and to verify the fact I sign it with the priest. Jose Antonio? Aranbe? (uncertain of the surname)
No wonder I couldn't figure it out...church doctrines ..it is a bummer no info on Mariana.
I attached the beginning..which tells me that Felipe Martines was the widow of Paula Armendaris and I think it gives his age. I guess I have to locate matrimonio information ..if it exists for more. THANKS again for your generosity.
This is the marriage record, but it does not give Felipe's age only where and when he was married and the name of his first wife and where she is buried. Here is what it says:
En la Santa Iglesia del Ser? de Burgos de la villa de Ximenas a los veinticuatro días del mes de diciembre de mil ochocientos treinta y siete: Yo el Provisional (uncertain of the abbreviation) Don Jose Maria Areniban Vice Provisional casé in facie ecclesia (Latin for in front of the church, before the church, or literally in the face of the church, written in all older Catholic marriage records) Felipe Martines viudo en primeras nupcias de Paula Armendaris, sepultada en esta Iglesia,
In the Holy Church of the Ser? (uncertain of this word, if you know the country of this record you can look it up using the name of the town and country in the catalog of FamilySearch) of Burgos of the town of Ximenas on the twenty fourth day of the month of December of one thousand eight hundred thirty seven: I the temporary priest Don Jose Maria Areniban, assistant temporary priest married Felipe Martines widower from his first marriage to Paula Armendaris, buried in this church,
1837 is probably before the civil or vital records of this particular country so you are unlikely to find another marriage record. If you want to find more information, I suggest that you search for the baptismal records of Felipe and Mariana in this same church from 1800 to 1817. You could also look for the baptismal records of any of their children beginning in 1837 until about 1865. Any of these records are likely to show the parents and grandparents of the baptized child and if you are really lucky the age of the parents. However, unless there is an index to the baptismal records you are going to have to search the records one by one. Good luck.
Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom.. i will continue my journey with the tools you have provided.