Question: Any way to trace sources of IGI entries? Are they all in FamilySearch?

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Okay, this is gonna sound dumb for more experienced people (of which I am one)...

A researcher's son sent me notes from his father's research for a particular surname in Maryland.

In them, he sent several pages of IGI printouts from 1992 and 1993 (two different versions of IGI) for that locality and surname.

Is it possible to trace back to the original documents from which the IGI info was extracted?

Are all these IGI entries in FamilySearch anyway, and I should just find the names, dates and places that correspond to the old IGI entries and see what sources are attached to them?

I've just never gone THROUGH the IGI... just used them as a reference point (assuming they came from source info) and moved on.

Thank you in advance,

Justin

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Brett said: Justin

Short Answer: NO.

Many of us would love to get into that 'nitty gritty' ...

Too disjointed ...
Too fragmented ...
Too much time involved ...
Too many "Sources" ...

Locked away in the "Archives" of the Church.

But, oh, what a 'treasure trove' ...

Brett

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LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: This is really complicated! It is far, far from a dumb question!

You will want to review these articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...

https://rejoiceandbeexceedingglad.blo...
(and all the articles it links to if they still exist)

https://rejoiceandbeexceedingglad.blo...

https://rejoiceandbeexceedingglad.blo...

https://rejoiceandbeexceedingglad.blo...

A couple of key points:

1) All people in the IGI are now in Family Tree. In fact the IGI was the main databse used to create Family Tree. Some may have been merged with duplicates. All probably need to be merged with duplicates.

Here is one example:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...

How do I know? Because if I look in his sources, I see this:



2) All records in the IGI that came from extraction/indexing are in the Historical Records databases.

Here are some examples from the Historical Records database Norway Baptisms:



I have worked with this collection enough to know that the ones that show just a first name and just a christening date are extraction records. If they have the pedigree icon in the last column, they are attached to a person in Family Tree who almost always will have come from the IGI. For example, the second on the list, Martin Linhard is attached, the attached person has only one source (this one), and all ordinance work is done:



This highly suggests an IGI record and if we go to Family Tree, we again see:



3) Records in the IGI that were from patron temple submissions do not have entries in the Historical Record databases. It can be very hard to find the sources that the patrons used for the original submission. The only ones you have much hope for at all are submissions between 1942 and 1969 because these had to be submitted on Family Group Sheets. These were all microfilmed and can be viewed at:
Family Group Records Collection, Archives Section, 1942-1969
https://www.familysear… [truncated]

LegacyUser

Lundgren said: As mentioned by others this is a complex question.

The igi is still searchable here:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...

There may be changes to that page in the future.

The search ui on this page are older than other parts of the system and may have some bugs.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Andrew

'Yes', certainly would not be appreciated by some; but, one of those would be the ability, to "Attach" the 'Results' of a 'Search', with regard to the, 'IGI'; and, 'Pedigree Resource File', records, in the "Sources" 'Tab', would be very much appreciated (by some, not all), instead of having to create "User-Defined" "Sources".

Brett

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LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: Regarding searching in the IGI as Lundgren mentioned:

1) For extracted and indexed records you don't need to because all the information contained there is contained in the historical database records and they can be attached as sources from there.

2) For patron submitted records, searching there may be a good way to find how the name for the head of the household was spelled so that you can more easily find it in the microfilmed Family Group Sheet. Unfortunately, the current IGI database does not include any more sources than the microfiche IGI.

Here is an example from a random Family Group Sheet:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/619...



You can search for the husband under Genealogies with exact spelling and birth year and see four entries for him. This is because a new IGI entry was generated each time he was submitted for temple work. (And is why he will have at least four duplicates in Family Tree that need to be merged!)

Here is one of them:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/619...



Here are the sources for this record as given in the onlilne IGI:



Here are the sources on the actual Family Group Sheet:



Still not terribly useful, but it does tell you that somewhere this gentleman does have a printed death notice which lets one know that it is worth starting to hunt for it.

As a side note, some people would view these IGI patron submitted bits of trees no more of a source than any random user generated tree on Ancestry or other sites because of this lack of actual source information and would detach them from Family Tree whenever they saw one.

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: And Gordon, I recognize the limitations regarding the strength of the sources of family group sheets... but I'm trying to find someone who seems to be in a "witness protection program", and any hints I can divine from possible family relations will help me. I try to find other corroborating sources to back the info up.

I'm my case, I have possible names for a set of parents of an ancestor that I've searched for off/on for 3.5 decades, but... I don't want to put them in unless I have more concrete info.

(My wife is asking about my obsession on this one... and has a local hospital on speed dial. LOL)

In any case, I have a flat spot on that part of my head that has been beating on the brick wall for so long.

And I'm not giving up.

LegacyUser

Brett said: Justin

My better half does not even bother any more ..
She just tells every one that I spend more time with the "Dead", rather than the "Living".
I dispute that; and, say it is at least 50/50 ...

Brett

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LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: What is important as to whether you will find the corresponding Family Group Sheet in the database I mentioned is the date of any ordinances on the record. He was sealed to his spouse in 1976, so that is too late. However, since this is a patron submitted record, all his other ordinances must have been completed before that. If you can find the record for him that has his baptismal or other ordinances, those might have been before 1969.

However, finding that other record is going to be hard because the other IGI entry will not have his wife, only his parents. That was a real problem with the IGI. Each entry would record one and only one event and not be linked to any other.

But just for fun, unless you want to post another example, let's give finding William Meredith a try.

1) Start at the link I gave above:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...

2) Click on "Browse through 5,337,178 images"

3) You will be at "First Letter of Surname." Click on M to come here:



4) Scroll to find the right waypoint of "Merckel, Johann Gottfried (1702) - Merki, Hans Jacob (1695)" and click on it to come to the first of 1598 frames of microfilm.

5) Jump back and forth in every narrowing spans of frames to find the oldest William Meredeth. You know the record will have that exact spelling because that is what is in the IGI.

The first one, born about 1596, is found in image 576:



Now, keeping in mind he probably won't be here, due to the sealing date, the one in the IGI record you have was born sometime before 1700. The sheets are arranged by name then chronologically so you just need to scroll forward until you hit 1700 and see if there are any candidates.

And there is not. So all his other ordinances were submitted after 1969 and there is no way to access the sources for that submission through this method.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: Regarding the trouble with the batch numbers and film numbers. I think the batch numbers listed in the search form are probably extraction program batch numbers, not sets of patron submitted records. Also, I would not be surprised to hear that the films are not available because they are such a mix of information that too many living people are listed in them. The comment about using the batch number rather than the film number probably means that if you were at the Salt Lake Family History Library and if the films are not totally restricted from any viewing by anyone, you would give the batch number to the librarian to get the film out for you.

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Justin Masters said: My wife would agree... (not about you, though). :-)

She says I should tell people "I see dead people" (ala Sixth Sense)

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Thank you for walking me through the process Gordon.

How did you find that place to search family group records?

I see Under Search, there is a Genealogies option, but that's not quite the same.

LegacyUser

Lundgren said: I don't know the future of the igi search page.

However, the igi community trees are available in the genealogies search page.

On this page you can select the igi collection at the bottom of the page:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/f...

This is an example of a search of the Jones surname in only igi contributed trees:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/f...

The genealogies search is being actively developed. You can watch that search interface for updates this year.

The records from what was the igi collection are spread across the normal historic records collections. The historic records search is being actively developed. The igi designation is more of a historic detail.

The data will not go away. The igi specific page may merge or change.

I personally do not have much experience with this data. Users here can probably better help you understand how to work with it.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: I'd heard about it's existence, but don't remember where. You can find it from the main search page. Under Find a Collection and Browse All Published Collections you can find all indexed and browse-only record collections (as always, click on the image to see it full size):



If you have never clicked on the Browse All Published Collections link, you should, just to see the riches FamilySearch has





And this doesn't even include all the stuff you can only access through the catalog.

LegacyUser

Lundgren said: You can find all of the family search collections here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...

On that page you can search for any collection name.

(You can get to the page by going to the historic records search page and selecting the browse all collections.)

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Thank you Lungren. I appreciate the pointer to the IGI specific search criteria.

I take it when you say "spread across the normal historic records collections" you mean as you hit "Search->Records"?

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Gotcha! I really haven't noticed that area there on the lower right. Thanks!

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Wow! Thanks!

LegacyUser

Lundgren said: You're welcome, and that is what I mean by spread across.

LegacyUser

Justin Masters said: Gordon, I found the path to the Family Group Records that you showed me earlier.

Click on that Browse All Collections link you pointed me to, and then type in family in the search box, and it will auto-filter down to collections with that name in it.