Retrieve names that have been shared with the temple system by others
Comments
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Justin Masters said: Thanks for doing that Tom. I do it as well. Someone contacted me this last weekend asking if I knew more about someone I had attached sources to awhile back, specifically their marriage and death dates. I was not closely related, just attaching sources, but I decided to dig further. And you can see what I found in newspaper articles... (took awhile to find him at first, and sometimes I found him by his surname and an accomplishment he performed (weird, but they kept referring to him by titles of different sorts)
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...
I reported back after all that work, and they said thanks, but we're just looking for dates, and really doing research on his brother.
I was a bit bummed, and then tried to find descendents of his that might be interested, but have not been successful, so for now... It's up there.
Definitely an interesting guy, but felt a little sorry for his family. His daughter married a number of times (even in the church). It brought up an an interesting question regarding whether they had their work done while alive. Do members who have been deceased have their records put up in Familysearch? Do we do ordinance work for them if they don't show up?0 -
Tom Huber said: It is my understanding that since the ordinance information is from the Temple Department database, that if a member of the Church has his own record tied to his membership, then the dates show up. If not, then I suspect that support will need to be contacted to link the records together.
About the only issue that's come up in the past has been with BIC showing up. I think (but do not know) that those are now being properly represented within the tree for those members who were born "in the covenant."
There may be another issue and that is with those former members who, for whatever reason (some of them were trivial during the early days in the Salt Lake Valley) were excommunicated. Those records, if known, have an invisible (to us) flag, but I don't know any more than that. I think it makes the ordiances for the excommunicated member become unavailable, but again, I do not know. It is my understanding that those who have been excommunicated (for reason or choice) will be the last to be resurrected...0 -
TManning said: LDS members who were excommunicated and were not rebaptized while living need to be approved by Salt Lake to have their temple work done. There are forms to be filled out and the temple work is done in the Salt Lake Temple. Your bishop can help you with this if you have a relative in this category.0
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Jeff Wiseman said: Justin,
Here's a thought on your last question. Although many patron accounts might have living records for other current members of the church in them (e.g., brother, father, son, etc.), NONE of those PIDs will have member ID numbers assigned to them. Only ONE PID in the database will ever have a particular member ID associated with it, and if that person creates a FS member account, that is the PID that will be given to them. That also is the PID that is uniquely associated with the person's ordinances (although like all other PIDs in the Living state, those ordinances will just not be visible until that person dies and their PID is moved to the deceased state).
When that member passes and the church records are updated to reflect that, we have been told that that person's PID will be moved from the Living state to Deceased based on the dates recorded by the church in their records.
Now the following is just a guess because it makes sense to me (although several things that FS have done here really DON'T make sense to me). This may not be how it works, but it would seem reasonable for FS to create a new PID for EVERYONE when they are entered as a new member of the church. If that person creates a new FS member account, that is the PID that they would receive (since it is already associated with their member ID and ordinances). But even if they NEVER created a member account, there would still be a PID associated with their member ID and ordinances in the database. Because they are living, nobody can see that PID (except FS since they are the admins). But when that person dies and the church records are update, just as before their PID would be moved into the Deceased state and would then become visible in the FT along with their ordinances (if patrons are allowed to see ordinances).
If things were handled this way, then it doesn't matter whether or not a member had an account on FS or not. Their record in both cases would not be visible when they were alive, and would be visible (automatically based on church record updates) after they died. Any missing ordinances could be performed after their record became visible. If they were done on a duplicate record, merging would get them back where they belonged.0 -
Tom Huber said: Here's a kicker for you. I've been using FS FT almost since its inception about a decade ago (long before it was opened for most members). It seems to me that at one time, I could view my ordinances, but at this time, I cannot. Therefore, I don't know if my ordinances are properly recorded or not and have no way to check with the present system.
My membership record is correct - I check it every few years, just to make sure, but as far as my "private space" personal page, they do not appear and are recorded as "Not available" with nothing more than a banner that only talks about the situation with living people...0 -
Tom Huber said: I'm of the opinion that I should see my own ordinance information. I do not need to see the ordinance information for any other living person accounts, but I should be able to see mine.0
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Brett said: Tom
I Totally agree - would be nice.
But ...
That said ...
My thought is that the 'Church' just simply wanted to ensure that Your/My/Everyone's "Ordinance" details, as "Living" individuals/persons, were absolutely SECURE and SECRET, behind a multi-layer "Fire Wall"; and, certainly NOT easily available to be accessed through nefarious means (ie. "Hacker" - criminal or otherwise).
Plus, there is another aspect to consider, the current 'set-up' ensures that, both, a "Helper"; and/or, a (T&FH) Consultant (in particularly, those NOT being [local] Priesthood Leadership), are NOT able to access/view Your/My/Anyone's "Ordinance" details, as a "Living" individual/person. (In other words: No chance/ability to be able to 'name' and/or 'shame' - it can; and, has, happened.)
But, 'Yes', being able to see one's "Ordinance" details in "Family Tree" of "FamilySearch", simply to easily ensure that it was CORRECT, would be very much appreciated - provided, of course, that it could, (1) be "Hidden", if and when required; and, (2) is NOT accessible/viewable by, both, "Helper(s)"; and/or, a (T&FH) Consultant(s).
Just my thoughts.
Brett0 -
Jessie Hearle said: https://familysearch.org/ask/productS...0
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Jeff Wiseman said: Certainly you might think it is an easier programming task to just universally block access to ordinances for ALL living persons. But that involves an incorrect assumption I think. The ironic thing is that with the exception of your own private PID, none of the other living PIDs in your private space can even be associated with a given set of ordinances yet! Remember, those are not the true PIDs of those members.
The only living PIDs that would ever be associated with ordinances would be the PIDs assigned to member's FS accounts (i.e., accounts with member IDs). All other PID instances of a living person's profile are duplicates existing in other FS patron's accounts that will some day need to be merged with the original PID in the member's account. Since parents, relatives, siblings, etc. never do ordinances for living people in their private spaces, when all of those PIDs have their status changed from living to deceased, only the PID with that person's member ID assigned to it will have any ordinances recorded with it. All others will have no ordinances and will need to be merged.
So the problem isn't BLOCKING access to ordinance records for living PIDs (since nearly all of them have NO ordinance records associated with them), instead the issue would be actually setting the system up to handle the unique EXCEPTION where a person could see their own ordinances. That looks like a very non-trivial job to provide you with information that you already receive once a year at tithing settlement, plus any other time you go to the ward clerk and request it.0 -
David Newton said: That's actually a very trivial thing to deal with. It's just that it shouldn't be done through the FSFT system.
What there should be for the profile of a Mormon is a note saying how to access the ordinance information in another part of the system. The ordinance information should be in an account information/settings area of the system. That way there is no exception to set up for the FSFT interface except a cosmetic conditional for the UI of the PID of the user themselves. The FSFT system doesn't need to be querying the ordinance database for living people at all. It would be the account settings/information part of the system that would be querying the ordinances database for the profile associated with that account.0 -
Tom Huber said: David, the "another part of the system" is a separate system and while the information is certainly in that system, what I want to make sure is that it is properly recorded for me on my record (added" in FamilySearch Family Tree). Then if there is an error, I can open a support case to have the matter corrected.
But without seeing my ordinance information (and yes, the article Jessie does mention how to view that, but not on FamilySearch.org) I have no way to know if my FamilySearch credentials are linked to my membership record.0 -
Robin L DeSpain said: This Still isn't fixed. *SIGH* A bunch of my family names have been picked up and are sitting there "Shared to Temple" While I and my daughter desperately want to do them. This NEEDS to get fixed along with NON-direct folks doing work for people who live in the last 100 years.0
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Tom Huber said: Your daughter can request that the temple-shared (but not yet printed) names be released. See Someone shared my ancestor's ordinances with the temple. The temple has not printed them. Can I do them? https://www.familysearch.org/ask/sale...0
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Robin L DeSpain said: I'll take a look. Thank you0
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Rebecca Jones said: Thank you FamilySearch for the new update that lets us reserve names shared with the temple. I love it that you listen to feedback and the Family Tree is just getting better and better. Family Tree wishes do come true!
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This is actually a question. Is it possible to "re share" names to the temple that I accidentally "unshared?"
Is it possible to unshare a name from the temple and then print that ordinance card so I can take it to the temple?
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You can move a name from your list to the temple list and back to your list and back and forth as many times as you want.
Yes, you can unshare a name from the temple to move it back to your list to print the card and complete the work.
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This discussion has been closed.