Twins
LegacyUser
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Comments
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Tom Huber said: Dismiss the error with reason. The births of twins should be the same date (or, in rare occurrences, one day apart).0
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Ken G Moyer said: Perhaps a Cap T could be placed on the image denoting male or female adjacent to a child's name.0
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Erika Campbell said: I type "Twin" on the Life Sketch so it will be seen as soon as the person page is opened. I place that on both children.
Erika0 -
Carolyn Wheeler said: I agree that there should be some easy way, such as a symbol, to mark twins. I know you are not supposed to enter “twin” in the title field of a name, but sometimes I do. Adding it any other place, such as in Notes under Collaboration or even in Life Sketch just buries it. When a child is a twin it should be obvious and “in your face.”
And, honestly, I do not see the harm in adding “Twin” in the title field of the person’s name. Can someone please explain to me, what is the harm in doing so?0 -
Tom Huber said: Prefixes and Suffixes in the Vitals name field are for formal names provided at birth. While a title usually is not given at birth, except in the case of royalty, suffixes, such as Sr. and Jr. should be applied with care. No one should see Sr. as a suffix in the Vitals section, No one would know if the child lived to produce offspring or name a child after himself at birth. But the suffix of Jr. is understandable. Usually, though the Jr. isn't applied until later in life and, unless it is indicated on a birth record, it should not appear in the Vitals section.
While it would be great to have a flag in the Vitals section that indicates a twin or triplet or some other part of a multiple birth, FamilySearch hasn't done so. Hopefully, it will be something that will be provided in the future.0 -
Nathalie Connor said: Just to give an example to bring the issue to life.
I happen to see a tree (not on here mind you) where I saw this recorded
Jane Elizabeth Frank
In essence Jane-Elizabeth is one twin and Frank her twin. So the seasoned among us would wonder why the name Frank was added to a girl's name. A potential surname? And that adds additional research.
Poor Frank's existence never recorded! (So you know they never saw the baptismal record,,, )
What about a superscript T BEFORE the name?0 -
Nathalie Connor said: Now that I think of it the baptismal record may have been the problem. They listed the two as follows: Jane Elizabeth Frank Connor with no notation separating the two children. Yet they did have differing god-parents.0
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Tom Huber said: Interesting situation. A super-scripted T (or appropriate letter) would work and it could appear wherever the name appeared.
Great suggestion.0 -
Nathalie Connor said: I am in favour in putting the 'T' a the beginning of the name, so it comes to people's attention right away and it does not interfere with the suffix section.
In French it would be a 'J' for Jumeau / Jumelle or the plural Jumeaux, as it is all-inclusive.
Just to bring light to French genealogy too often I see jnr and snr added. It simply does not exist in French. Roman numerals are used. Now I have four ancestors in a row named Jacques so they are denoted as Jacques I,II,III and IV. So their pedigree order is denoted.
I have a question for you. How do you properly label children who have died but that name was used on subsequent children? For example I have one family that had three sons named Thomas, two Elizabeths and two Marys. The earlier children all died of course. How would you label them? And yes they must be included as it reflects reality and it is seen as a way of honoring the child that passed.
What would you suggest?1 -
Carolyn Wheeler said: I do not add any labels, such as I, II, or III to children whose names have been reused or to direct line ancestors with repeated same names. I just trust that the birth and death dates will speak for themselves. Sometimes I add a note under the collaboration tab to, hopefully, clear up any confusion.0
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David Epperson Marshall said: Something else to consider is triplets, quadruplets, etc. Maybe have an icon indicating multiple children born on the same date that could cover all these edge cases.0
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joe martel said: I agree that knowing a Person is a twin is important. It can resolve edit/merge wars where users are talking about one or the other twin (triplet...). How to see that is the challenge.
Consider that there have been many other enhancement requests to signify some kind of attribute of that Person (now divorced, never married, has a duplicate, refuted parents, cremated, stillborn...)
Imagine that you went to a Person and saw a icon or letter like "m", say next to the name. Do you know what it means?
- What does it mean? - you'll need a legend: "M" means "multiple birth, like twins..."
- Is it localized, different languages see different letters?
- Is it readable? If you make it smaller than the other text, can people with poor eyesight still discern it?
- If its a superscript or subscript it would typically be smaller font. We already have font size limits. Plus scripts cause the line height and leading to be bigger and take up more screen real estate.
- Should it go in front of the name, behind it? What about really long names?
- The M is wrong, how do I edit it, delete it, or add it to start with?
- Is it part of that conclusion, vital name? Does it show as a new conclusion type, in the changelog...?
I think the intent is : I want a way to designate and see Twin but not have to wade through the life sketch, Notes, Other information... I did a mock up that is meant to elicit alternative approaches. Now extend that and consider what other attributes we want to call out.
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Tom Huber said: In some cases, a number (I II III) is something that I’ve found in official documents, so that can be part of the name, just like Jr an$ Sr.0
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Tom Huber said: Certainly a legend is needed when a symbol is used with a name. I can see where superscript or subscript can be a problem . As far as placement is concerned, I can see if before the name with the legend stating that the symbol indicates a multiple birth person.
As far as editing, I can see it as a checkbox that when checked, Indicates the person was part of a multiple birth.0 -
Carolyn Wheeler said: This is probably silly, but would it be possible to create some kind of universal symbol, similar to ones that are currently used in airports to designate bathrooms? What about two person-symbols touching hands?0
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Tom Huber said: That's a great idea, but such a symbol would take space. What I was thinking was a symbol like the † symbol. It doesn't take much space and would not need to be super- or sub-scripted.
Editing the name would have a check box in front to the name fields:
The edited name woud appear in the vitals as
† Vance Nevin Jones
and his twin as
† Brian Nevin Jones
If a triplet was involved:
† Robert Nevin Jones
The legend would indicate: † = part of a multiple birth (twin, triplet, etc.)0 -
David Epperson Marshall said: Actually I really like the icon/letter (icon because then you don't need to worry about language). Then simply hovering over it will tell the user what it means (in the user's language). I think having it to the left of the person's avatar would be a fairly clean location to have it.0
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Tom Huber said: I hadn’t thought about the banner, just the name in the body of a profile. Hovering over the icon to reveal the meaning makes a lot of sense. Putting the icon to the left of the portrait also makes sense. Good ideas,0
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Juli said: The dagger/cross symbol is already taken: it means "died".0
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Tom Huber said: I was thinking of the double (I could not find the code to insert the character, but it is similar to the dagger when I posted the above samples, except there are two cross bars, one above the other. I think I found it and it is: ‡ -- Is there any problem with that symbol?
I hate getting old. I am developing cataracts and have some astigmatism as it is, so the ‡ character looked like the hash character #, but with straight lines.0 -
Paul said: The only thing I could think of was to replace the portrait with the word "TWIN". Don't know how this would work with an actual portrait inserted (caption below?) as this was just a quick attempt to at least get the fact (of being a twin) to show prominently.
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Nathalie Connor said: Personally I like this option best as I have no pictures to put in that space however that will affect those that do. You cannot write it with the name as it is not part of what they are called.
"Hello My Name is Jane Smith, Triplet" LOL!
In essence it is meant as a research tip to point to more siblings.
Perhaps the drop down menu for sex ie male / female, multiple birth could be added there. Or a simple MB checkbox would suffice for me to know to research additional children.
The KISS principle always works best.0 -
Nathalie Connor said: More ideas
One thing I wish was different in the baptismal record is that there is no field for godparents. So if that could be added then surely a check box or a tiny field for multiple births could be added. Or a drop down menu with twin, triplet, quadruplet etc.0 -
Paul said: Just going back to the original issue (I promise I will stop messing around and leave alone after this!) here's an alternative. Can't get the font sizes right, so still looks rather amateurish, I'm afraid. But, definitely, my last attempt!
Whoops, added "wrong" portrait to Hannah, but shows a further option:
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Paul said: On your point about the godparents, I believe Tom Huber could give a better reply than me.
I don't godparents are usually indexed in FamilySearch projects, but if (say) you have an image record, apart from attaching it to the individual who was baptised / christened, you could edit the source title to something like:
"George Brown (godparent) in entry for William Smith Baptism, England, Norfolk Parish Registers,1812-37".0 -
Juli said: (Were Mr. and Mrs. Thirkettle aware that Anne and Hannah are EXACTLY THE SAME NAME?....)0
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Paul said: Well, only inasmuch as once Latin starts to disappear from use (in England, at least) Maria and Mary and Jacob and James (for example), started appearing as siblings. I've had other users trying to merge names like these, believing they were variant names for the same children. However, my worst example is of the parents who named their twins Easter and Esther - they've been merged a few times, by different users. I'm sure the Thirkettles had no idea about the common origin of their daughters' names!0
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Juli said: Well, my daughter had a classmate in preschool named Jacob with a little brother named James, so the parental cluelessness continues to this day.0
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Erika Campbell said: I put the name Twin in Life Sketch for both children, that way everyone can see it immediately.0
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Paul said: Erika
Many users (including me) do not use the Life Sketch section. Also, it can be collapsed. So, no, everyone will not "see it immediately".
See https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...
Even though I have entered TWIN in the Life Sketch, this is hidden when I open the Person page.0
