Overall ' Watch' icon to press and watch entire family tree.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi . We dont have a an overall 'watch' button for the family tree, rather than it being indivualised. This would be a very useful tool for lds members. Because this site is public, information gets changed on occasions, and the changes they make may not be always accurate. Could this be introduced. Thanks sis Carole Whitthread.

LegacyUser

Paul said: Welcome to the forum, Carole.

The issue of allowing an individual's watch list to be significantly enlarged from the current circa 4,000 IDs has been discussed here on a number of occasions, but that appears to be the limit beyond which the system's operation might be adversely affected, we have been told.

However, it does intrigue me how you would envisage a "limitless" list operating. How would anybody have the time to keep a watch on every individual in the vast tree?

Also, why do you think this issue is more important to LDS church members than those users who are not?

I speak as someone who is not a member of the Church and has around 1,200 individuals "on watch". It takes a great deal of my time making the necessary corrections other users have made to these IDs (incorrect merges, adding wrong vitals, etc.) These users are as likely to be "LDS" as not. Even if I had the maximum 4,000 on my watch list, I doubt if I could cope with monitoring them all.

I'm sure a lot of users would like the maximum number to be increased, but believe this would (from previous comments made here by the engineers) make the system unstable. As suggested, I also believe it would create an intolerable workload for any conscientious user who wished to correct all the errors that would be encountered if your suggestion (if I am understanding it correctly) were to be implemented.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Dear Paul,

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints.

I was not aware that this question would be placed in the forum, for the entire world of non LDS members.

I understood 'The Family Search' programme was created by an LDS member, but clearly, things have changed whereby everyone has access to the site, which is a good deed.

However, like you, I have invested in a vast number of research and while the Coronavirus is still around the world, this has been a valuable time for me, and others to do family search.

May this time be a positive outcome by my simple request be considered ' an overall watch icon and an individual, if they so choose to do so.

Regards,

Carole.

LegacyUser

Paul said: These were just my personal opinions, Carole. Hopefully, you will get other responses from Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints church members - in particular, FamilySearch employees, who would be far better qualified to consider the feasibility of your request than me. Best wishes, Paul.

LegacyUser

Robert Wren said: Carole, As a Church member, have you considered synching your branch of the massive FS Tree (10 generations) to MyHeritage.

Then each time you sync you receive a report of what has been changed.

OR, as I'm sure be quickly suggested, use one of the Apps to download you branch onto your home computer which will allow you to monitor the 'action' RootsMagic, Ancestral Quest or Legacy all do this.

Or create an Ancestry tree which will also compare and transfer info between the two sites.

See the Solutions Gallery at the bottom of every FS page for more info.

"Search Topics" in the upper right corner and you finda lot more discussions on the subject>

(I assume you are only considering this only for you own relatives & and NOT the 1.4 Billion in the tree.)

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi.
I appreciate your suggestions, however I hope Family Search may consider this suggestion as this is my preferential site to use.

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: Carole, welcome back to this public feedback board. I see you had one additional post back in 2019. A lot of people do misunderstand that the feedback button does put the feedback on this public board for all the world to see.

The FamilySearch website was not "created by an LDS member" but rather by FamilySearch, " A service provided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" as you can read on the footer of every page which is comprised of a multitude of designers, software engineers and dedicated support staff. The entire website has been fully open to the entire world and has been completely free for everyone ever since it first opened in May 1999 and through all it's upgrades into what we have today. I've heard, but don't have sources, that the majority of truly serious genealogist on this site who are very serious about the accuracy of their family information are not members of the church and have done wonderful work here. There are also a lot of indexers that are not members of the church.

But back to your question. You hit a little bit of a sore spot with your question because so many users still seem to not realize that Family Tree is a single tree for the entire human family that we are all working on together.

Since you do not have an individual tree, a single button to click to watch everyone with a connection to you could mark several hundred million individuals. I'm sure you'd agree that is not what you want!

However, your idea certainly has merit. First question, however, is who do you really want to watch? Just direct ancestors? How many generations back? How many descendants of those ancestors?

I have manually set up my watch and my wife's watch list to have direct ancestors back ten generations on lines that go that far, all their children, and all their children's spouses. This is sufficient for me and is well within the 4000 individual limit. It took less than an hour to do this for each of us. Because of the way changes work, I also get notifications of changes in relationships to any parent or child to any of these people, which picks up merge problems.

It would be handy to have a button to automatically refresh this watch list with those limitations. But the question become, is that type of list sufficient for everyone? Would others prefer to have fewer generations back and more forward? Would other's prefer that when you watch any ancestor, you automatically get a small cluster of the parents and children of that person? A lot of factors would need to be decided on if this could be done with a reasonable investment in programming effort and computational power.

LegacyUser

gasmodels said: The issue is what is your "tree" include. Family Tree is interconnected so there are no individual trees. There might be branches that contain mostly information on your ancestors but these will be connected to other branches of other individuals ancestors. Where does your "tree" stop --that is the question you need to think about. Does it just include your direct ancestors that you see say on the Fan Chart or does it include siblings, children, grandchildren etc of your direct ancestors. It is not so easy to decide what you want to watch in a global sense so maybe the individual flagging is the best way to go and you just make sure you have marked those you are interested in. Once they are marked you really don't have to worry about it unless there is a change and then you can deal with added individuals or merges on a single record basis.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Gorden. Thank you for the welcome back. I'm hoping the admin will be able to address my suggestion, as a choice for overall and individual watch.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Gasmodles. The issue is the ' watch ' individual key. Too much of a long process. An 'overall' icon as an either or, would be most useful

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: This Family Search programme, as do many other genealogy sites, constantly updates for whatever reasons. I welcome change. It's only an option

LegacyUser

Gordon Collett said: As I stated, I do agree this would be an interesting concept. However, also as I stated, for the programmers to even consider this, you need to define "my family." So think about this and decide who you really want to watch and post it as a specific suggestion for the programmers. Your suggestion needs to be somewhere between "My family" being you and your parents and siblings, which is too trivial to bother programming, and being everyone you are connected to which at several hundred million is impractical. Your definition needs to remain less than 4000 individuals which is the current watch list limit as explained above.

Brainstorm a bit about what you really want and post the specifics and the program designers might just put it on their list of future enhancements.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Jeff,
My family ancestors ( and your) tree are truly important to know of our family. It is by choice to place a 'watch' on invested data. I would welcome an 'overall' icon, (an option of choice) to be introduced as this would be a useful tool for me and others.

It is only on rear occasions, do I receive a notifications on individuals I'm watching on loads of generations of my family tree.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: Just a few more thoughts on that. First of all the reporting mechanism that FS has been using has been having some problems--they have not been consistently getting change reports sent out (they are currently planning to remove this email feature and replace it with putting the announcements into your messages area on FS). This has not been an issue to be as I typically check manually every other day or so. I almost always find at least a couple of changes.

How many people do you actually have on your watch list? There is usually enough activity in the tree that people with any size of list will typically be seeing changes on a regular basis.

It is by choice to place a 'watch' on invested data

I agree completely! So since you don't want to individually mark each record that you have specifically "invested data" in, why would you want a single "overall" option that would enable watches on potentially tens of thousands of records that you have NOT "invested data" in?

I may be misunderstanding something here, but what you are asking for doesn't appear to me to be making sense.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Jeff,
The 'Overall' ('Individual' watch icon e have now), only applies to your family tree only, you are investing in. It's just a choice of options, I would like introduced.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: *we

LegacyUser

Paul said: Carole

Unfortunately, your suggestion can NEVER be introduced as you are refusing to explain what it actually is!

Jeff and Gordon have obviously spent a considerable amount of time in trying:

(1) To ascertain exactly what you want.

(2) To explain how impracticable some of the options might be.

However, your responses remain the same - far too vague for anyone to understand what you are really asking for. The possibility of automatically being able to watch all your direct ancestors (and possibility their siblings), or of watching all the billion or so individuals to be found in Family Tree?

Without being more specific, I am afraid you are wasting your time - and that of other experienced Family Tree users - in repeating your original request without any qualification to help us, and the engineers, know what it really means.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Dear Paul,
Trying to establish of you are one of the engineers?

LegacyUser

Paul said: No, afraid not. I explained my "status" in my original post and would still hope a FamilySearch engineer will provide a response to your query. Unfortunately, they do not answer every point raised by us, which is why experienced FamilySearch / Family Tree users offer their advice. This is generally based on many years of experience in using the various Family Tree features (like the "Watch list").

Hopefully an engineer / other FS employee will respond here.

LegacyUser

joe martel said: Carole, thanks for your question. It is frequently asked by users about being able to work and track in their tree. The comments from the other forum members above have provided good information to consider. 

If you like many of the members are part of the largest connected tree in FT, you have about half a billion people in your tree. To watch that many people seems daunting (there are probably over a million changes per day) for the user to check, and for the system to send out that many change notifications to users would flood the email system. It does become a scaling issue for the system as well which involves cost of CPU time. 

So I think your desire might be more, "I want to be notified/watch a circle of ancestors/relatives like 5 generations down (backward in time) and 2 generations up (their descendants) and spouses." That becomes a much more manageable number. But depending on your down/up numbers it could be thousands or millions. Some record managers and partner sites do that to pull down your tree. Is this your intent and what would be your up/down generations number?

BTW: If you don't want your question here to be posted in a public forum it will be removed at your request. Your other options to pose this question is in the FS Communities https://community.familysearch.org/s/?language=en_US.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Joe,

There seem to be a misunderstanding of my humble request. I'm only asking for this Family Search web site to consider an option for ' overall' watch as well as the 'individual' watch, to be considered, so I can watch MY entire generation of family .

There are other ancestral sites to choose, but I only to use this site as it's a familiar programme for me to use to find my ancestors ect.

I've collected data, forming numerous names of families and only desire to have the option to watch MY entire tree. I hope this is clear.

If only ask the engineers of this site, consider this option.

LegacyUser

joe martel said: I think I understand your request and is has been added with the other users' request. 

I was trying to better understand your concept of watching your "entire tree". For instance this shows going back 8 generations, and opening up just one set of children. THis is showing only one line, not expanding each line (because the tree landscape view only allows one line at a time). You can imagine (try it with your own tree) that there are probably hundreds of names to watch as you click to open each generation to the right and each of those couple's children. 

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Joe,
Much appreciated.
Carole.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: Carole, the PAF program, which is a family tree management program that the Church offered for free, was the creation of Gaylon Findlay.

FamilySearch and its predecessors were never created by him or one person.

Ever since the 1950s and the GIANT program, the Church has used development teams in its efforts to take advantage of computer technology as it became available. FamilySearch is the latest iteration of a long range of computerized systems going back to that early system.

Because I use a family tree management program with a local database, there are a large number of things I can do with it that I cannot do with FamilySearch. There are three versions, each with a free version, that can fully interface with FamilySearch, including the ability to download all my ancestors and their descendants. The number of people is unwieldy because of the sheer numbers.

Do you really want to watch 50,000 or more people? I sure don't and so have restricted the number to just a few hundred, of which only a few are often adversely impacted for various reasons.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Tom,
In answer to your question - Do you really want to watch 50,000 or more people? I only want to concentrate on MY family tree to keep an 'overall' option.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: That would be your family tree... 50,000 or more people. Actually, your ancestral line branches, not tree. Some of them would not be valid, such as those that can go back into the flawed Biblical Record lineages.

The project is doable, especially since the fully certified family tree management programs can do it. But how do you control what is selected when you click that single button. It might take some processing power to do it, but you could easily end up with a lot more than just 50,000 names. According to someone -- Joe Martel or Ron Tanner (both FS persons) -- the biggest collection of names among the over 1.2 Billion profiles that are interconnected has over 300,000 profiles -- all related in one way or another.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Tom,
I appreciate your comment - The project is doable, especially since the fully certified family tree management programs can do it. Perhaps an engineer could answer the question. I'm only making a suggestion which many would like an 'overall' watch button.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: One other thing to add. This would be a 'Choice' for the researcher to watch 'Individually or Overall' Maybe, as a suggestion a ' Turn off notification button to Overall and individual....

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Robert,
Thank you for your consideration. In answer to your question - (I assume you are only considering this only for you own relatives & and NOT the 1.4 Billion in the tree.) For my relatives only.

LegacyUser

Jeff Wiseman said: Carole,

Respectfully, there is a single concept that has been repeated here by several people (including Joe) that you do not seem to have caught onto yet. You keep mentioning things along the lines of:

(I assume you are only considering this only for your own relatives & and NOT the 1.4 Billion in the tree.) For my relatives only

as though it is a trivial number. Whether it is "For your relatives only", or for "My relatives only", or for "Robert's relatives only", or for "ANYBODY'S relatives only", your are STILL talking about tens of thousands of your relative's person records in the tree that you would be getting change reports on with an "Overall" type watch function.

As Joe pointed out, you likely have tens of thousands of relatives in the FS FamilyTree. Having a single button to basically turn on a watch for the "Overall" set of your relatives in your tree would not only be impossible from a system loading standpoint, it would also be impossible for you to keep up with all of the change notices that you would be receiving even if it COULD be done technically (and that would still be even if you could work 24/7 doing nothing else in your life but dealing with changes being made to relatives in your tree!

The ONLY way this type of thing could ever be done and still be useful is if the "Overall Watch" function that you are talking about only watched a tiny portion of "your tree"--say at most 10% OR LESS. So you would need to identify specifically which parts of the tree that you did NOT want watched (again as Joe described).

And if the biggest part of the tree that you could practically watch is less than 10% of your entire tree, how could you properly refer to it as an "OVERALL" watch when only 10% of "ALL" the relatives in your tree are actually being watched?

Anyway, I'm really not trying to be nasty or anything, I just haven't gotten the impression that you have quite "caught the vision" on how impossible what you have appeared to be suggesting is, without the application of SIGNIFICANT limitations.

Now, in a much more limited form, I can see how the "single button" type watch feature could have value. E.g. Watch just my ancestors back (say) 9 generations. Or maybe just all of my ancestors and their siblings and spouses. But I can pretty well guarantee that putting in the ability to perform an "overall" watch on your entire tree with all its branches is just never going to happen.

Please note that if I have missed something significant in your explanations, please forgive me.

LegacyUser

Carole Whitthread said: Hi Jeff,
Respectfully, the question - '(I assume you are only considering this only for your own relatives & and NOT the 1.4 Billion in the tree.) For my relatives only' Has been answered repeatedly. It is only for MY ancestors only. I also understand that it is doable. I trust that the engineers may consider the options.

Perhaps a simple solution could work with an 'Overall' button is to simply turn off the notifications...?