In my family tree, I have a father and son who emigrated from Norway. I want to see if I have any f
Answers
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Shari,
Regarding Lina, I think you are correct. The 1905 census information fits very well. It's a good thing Nils P Strand moved around to stay with a different child each census.
You might have noticed that I found a birth record that I was confident enough to add in for Oline. Please double check it, but the information for birth date, father's first name, and mother all fit very nicely.
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But the 1875 census also has all the birth places as Hamar when half of them were not, so I'm not too concerned that the census taker put down "their" for Anders.
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Regarding Oline Olufsdatter not being with her mother in the 1865 census, just the 1875 census, here is an intriguing entry in the 1865 census for a foster child of the right name, born about the right year, in the right parish, who is living in Vang, where Martha was from and where Martha and the rest of the family was living in 1865.
I don't think there is any way to be absolutely sure this is the correct Oline since Oline/Olina was a very common name in Hedmark in that census, but there are only nine Oline/Olina listed in the entire 1865 census born in Løten between 1858 and 1862 and the other six are all with their parents. So if the census has the correct birth place for her (and we have seen in the 1875 census that two of the boys are listed as having been born in Hamar when they were born in Vang and Stor-Elvdalen) this is the only candidate for her in the census.
I'm going to attach this census record to her with the above warning.
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Amazing, you've done a lot of great work and I agree with your conclusions. I think the evidence is very strong, almost conclusive that the marriage is the correct one. What are the odds of having same names, same ages, same place, and same occupation. I had noticed on other records he was a laborer. Plus the more Swedish sounding name of Peer. I think a current residence was written, omitting any Swedish reference.
That said, we are still back to deciding if the record for Anders L2BL-5W2 is the correct one.
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Peter, I'm fairly certain the name would not be Milson, but rather Nilsson. I have not done any studies on the family who are from Sweden. All of the research I've done is recorded in FamilySearch. I believe the same is for our friend Gordon who has done a lot of work on your behalf.
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Gordon, two brains are so much better than one. I didn't think to look at the klokkerbok but you are such a wizard and did! I'm delighted to collaborate on a fascinating project. Yes, vaccination dates can be like magic but I'm less experienced with them in Norway studies. My skills are a bit better (I hope) in Danish records.
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Peter, is it OK with you if Shari and I merge everything we have found with what you have? It will change quite a bit. If you want to review it all first, let and us know and start here:
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Peter, I should have done as Gordon asked above before merging records. I do apologize if you would rather that your entries not be changed. (Sorry, merging was necessary). It's such a complex story, it really needed to have sources and names attached, then combined to tell the complete story. So, the Swedish line is your "adopted" line. I have not done any studies on your Gunder Ammunsen (father of illegitimate Andrew G.).
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A study of Gunder Ammundsen will be a challenge because there could be multiple men by that name in the same location. We only have the birth record of son Anders to build upon.
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Gordon and Shari,
Not only is it OK, but I am near tears with appreciation. It makes sense for your data to take priority as you two clearly have skills that ensure a higher fidelity to the truth. Please fix up the records as you see them.
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Gordon and Shari,
Not only is it OK, but I am near tears with appreciation. It makes sense for your data to take priority as you two clearly have skills that ensure a higher fidelity to the truth. Please fix up the records as you see them.
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Peter, I have to say that this has been one of the most challenging research puzzles I've run across in quite a while. It has been a lot of fun. I hope that the tips I've scattered here and there and the examples of using FamilySearch and Digitalarkivet resources have made a good case study in Norwegian research for you to see how to go about more Norwegian research as you run across questions.
But back to your original question on how to find living relatives in Norway. At this point, I think, you have only accounted for part of this family in America and emigration records are being elusive. There is still Peder, Ida, and Mathilda. If any of them remained in Norway, there is a chance that finding and following them forward in time will lead you to cousins in Norway. After everything we have found so far is sourced and tidied up, I'll see if I can find any hints as to what happened to those three children
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From Anders christening we know his father was named Gunder Ammundsen Strand and he was from Elverum parish. That is all we know. We could study all potential men by this name in the area and try to eliminate some, and include some, but without more information (maybe from Anders confirmation?) we won't really know exactly which is the correct one. That brings up confirmation record which I have not yet searched for.
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Peter, this map might be enjoyable to you. You can see how Sweden is not that far away. https://www.norgeskart.no/#!?project=seeiendom&layers=1002,1015&zoom=7&lat=6767203.93&lon=342759.74&markerLat=6746349.153045604&markerLon=286855.67326898495&panel=searchOptionsPanel&sok=hedmark
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Shari and Peder, you will probably see me making sure place names are correct and modifying a lot of them. The standardized places for Hedmark are a bit of a mess right now. The only Vang available in that database is the current village in Hamar. Using that is close but historically incorrect.
In brief, as can be read in Wikipedia and other sources
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vang,_Hedmark )
Vang municipality was established in 1838 using the boundaries of Vang Prestgjeld or Parish. The municipality/parish had three subunits, Vang sogn, Hamar sogn, and Furnes sogn, each with its own church.
To quote Wikipedia, " The city of Hamar was separated from Vang in 1849. Furnes was separated from Vang in 1891. Vang was merged with Hamar on 1 January 1992."
So correct place names for the largest municipality areas would be:
From very early to 1849:
Vang, Hedmark, Norway
From 1849 to 1891:
Vang, Hedmark, Norway
Hamar, Hedmark Norway
From 1891 to 1992:
Vang, Hedmark, Norway
Hamar, Hedmark, Norway
Furnes, Hedmark Norway
From 1992 to 2019:
Hamar, Hedmark, Norway
Furnes, Hedmark, Norway
From 2020 on:
Hamar, Innlandet, Norway
Furnes, Innlandet, Norway
For the time period Peder's family was in the area, there was no such thing as "Vang, Hamar, Hedmark, Norway"
There is an ongoing project to correct Norwegian place names but it is slow going due to these historical complexities. Right now the best we can do is enter "Smaller place name such as farm or villiage, Vang, Hedmark, Norway" and associate the "standardized version" of "Vang, Hamar, Hedmark, Norway," even though that is just the current small village located in the municipality of Hamar.
To add to the confusion, from the list of the parish record it appears that even after Hamar municipality was separated from Vang municipality, Hamar sogn was still a subdivision of Vang prestegjeld. So if one uses parishes to record events (which I usually don't after 1838 when the municipalities were established) then an event in the city of Hamar, Hedmark, Norway could be correctly recorded as taking place in Hamar sogn, Vang prestegjeld, Hedmark, Norway (which is also not available in the standards database yet).
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I'm super grateful for the help with place names. It's a difficult subject for me in Norwegian records.
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I agree that finding Gunder will be difficult. The only information from the Anders birth record:
1) His name of Gunder
2) His father's name of Ammund
3) That he was living at Strand in 1863
4) That he was from Elverum.
We don't have a birth place in Elverum and we don't have any guess at age age.
That isn't much to go on. However, if he was still alive and still in Norway in 1865 and got counted in the census, there are only four possibilities in the entire census:
However, if he got recorded with the wrong birth place or if he had emigrated, he could well be missing from the census. And if he is one of these four, there is noting in the census to connect him to Martha and Anders.
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How interesting. Thank you.
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Gordon, we are missing a confirmation record for Anders. What are the chances it might shed some light on his father?
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I see some Swedes adding to the family. How was that connection made?
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The nice thing about Swedish records are that they are so complete.
The hard thing about Swedish records is that everyone is named the same.
The best thing about Swedish records are the clerical surveys in which, once you first find a family, you can track people through the years very nicely. It's become even easier since My Heritage has done so much work indexing these surveys.
This page in the clerical survey for Mangskog shows that the Nils Peerson who was the brother of Anders Peerson died in 1850 in Mangskog and so cannot be the Nils Peerson who went to Norway:
I'll reverse some additions to Nils's tree.
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I think I made the error, and can't explain what happened. Apologies.
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Was a quiet day in my home today so I though I would try a bit more poking around. This is part one of several since we are limited on the length of posts. Be sure to start here at the beginning:
I’m not very good with immigration records into the US. Paul, if you can find someone that is, maybe you can get records for when Nils and family arrived in the US. There sure doesn’t seem to be any records for when they left available. It really would be good to know if they all emigrated or not. Any that remained would be a potential source for your closest relatives in Norway. Otherwise, it’s going to take stepping back a generation like this:
Possible identification for Marte Anders daughter based on assumption that the consistent statement in records that she was born in Vang is correct and that her marriage record is correct in stating that she was 28 5/12 years old.
Since if she was born in Vang and married in Vang the priest would have had the parish records of when she was born and he would have the actual birth date.
Being 28 5/12 years old in Oct 1864, means that she would have been born about May 1836.
The two census records for her give her birth year as 1836 and 1837. The birth record for her last two children give her birth year as 1836. Birth record for Ida gives her birth year as 1831 which is clearly an error. Records before that do not give birth years for the parents.
Her marriage record gives her father’s name as Anders Jensen.
Looking at the Vang parish records and searching for a child named Mar* christened between 1834 and 1838 gives just 7 results:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/76/9060?forenamn=mar*&etternamn=&kjonn=&rolle=barn&stilling_stand=&bustad=&fodestad=&fodselsaar=&fodselsdato=&aar=&dpdato=1834*|1835*|1836*|1837*|1838*&stadfesta=&sokn_kyrkje=&ekte_uekte=&vigd=&introd=&dpstad=&merknader=
Of these, just 4 are actually Marthas. The four sets of parents are:
Ole Larsen and Pernille Christophersdatter
Simen Jacobsen and Ingborg Christiansdatter
Peder Olsen and Marthe Mikkelsdatter
Kolderup and Gunnerus Ulriksen
So that was not useful. Changing the search to use birth year instead of christening year gives 69 results:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/76/9060?forenamn=mar*&etternamn=&kjonn=&rolle=barn&stilling_stand=&bustad=&fodestad=&fodselsaar=1834*|1835*|1836*|1837*|1838*&fodselsdato=&aar=&dpdato=&stadfesta=&sokn_kyrkje=&ekte_uekte=&vigd=&introd=&dpstad=&merknader=
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Part 3:
To make sure this Martha grew up, it is worth checking for a confirmation record. She would have been 14 in 1850 so that is the place to start in the Vang records.
Here on line 37 is her confirmation record in 1852 with same parents and birthplace so this Marthe did make it to age 15.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051003010248 (Klokkerbok)
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070118350644 (Ministerialbok)
If this is the correct Martha, sometime between 1852 and 1860 she moved from Vang to Løten. Searching the transcribed moving out records does not show her, but I’ve found those records to be rather incomplete.
Going back to census records, in the 1865 census, there are only 13 Mar* And* born in 183* in Vang in the entire census. Five are a Maria or Marit so can be eliminated. Three of the remainder are unmarried daughters living with their parents. That leaves one unmarried Martha not living at home and four married Marthas, one of which is the one married to Nils. The final iteration of the search is here:
First on the list of four is Martha and Nils.
Next is Martha and Jens Olsen Lier. Finding their marriage record shows that this Martha’s father was Anders Persen.
Third is Martha and Lars Andersen. Finding their marriage record shows that this Martha’s father was Anders Larsen.
Fourth and last was Martha and Even Larsen. Finding their marriage record shows that this Martha’s father was Anders Hansen.
That means that the Martha Andersdatter born in Vang in 1836 is either the unmarried woman born in 1834 born in Vang and living in a household in Stange parish, died before 1865, was not listed in the 1865 census, or is the correct Martha Andersdatter to be Nil’s wife.
Paul, you will have to make your own conclusion about all this, but I’ve pretty much convinced myself. Shari, please point out all my flaws in logic and explain why this conclusion can’t be trusted.
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Part 4:
Now assuming that I am correct, then what other siblings can we find?
This list of Pernille Larsdatter as mother covering 1826 to 1841 has four records in which the father is Anders Jensen
This one has one more:
You would have to see if it makes sense that these are all the same family. If they are, that gives you three lines (not counting the Martha that died at 3 months of age and the Martha that married Nils) that you could follow forward in time and potentially find some living relatives.
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Part 5:
All five of the children have indexed records on FamilySearch which can be found here:
If this does represent one family, which I suspect it does, they moved around a lot because the children were born on different tenant farms. This is a situation that confirmation records could help if the family had settled down and all had the same residence when confirmed.
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