Is the downvote option at Suggest an Idea proving to be a good idea after all?
Initially, I felt quite okay about the introduction of downvoting along with the previous upvote-only option.
I now feel this could hurt the feelings of the person suggesting the idea as much as if a (now disallowed) blunt or negative comment was made below.
Looking at a few of the items at Suggest an Idea, I feel very sad for the (perhaps new) contributor to see that their enthusiastically presented idea has been given multiple "thumbs down" reactions.
As I imagine the probable disappointment (especially of those new to Community) in seeing their ideas rejected by Community members, I must admit I am now feeling reluctant to add to that number alongside the down arrow, as I fear I might be causing upset to a member of a sensitive nature.
Regardless of the "dubious merits" of certain ideas, I'm sure I'd be quite hurt if I saw this alongside my sincerely presented post:
Ouch.
Answers
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What's wrong with twelve upvotes?
Oh, I see what the problem is: the ill-thought-out color choices make it look like it's twelve downvotes. You've upvoted it, which turns the "up" triangle a very, very, very pale blue, while the "down" triangle stays at its usual darkish grey. But if you look at a suggestion that you haven't voted on, then you'll see equally-dark up and down triangles under the number.
Negative totals have a negative sign on the number.
Out of the 250 most recent things listed under Suggestions, there are currently a total of seven with a negative total, and four of them arrived at that total with some number of upvotes in the mix: -8 (10), -7 (11, 7), -4 (8), -2 (4), and two of -1 (1). Unfortunately, you can only see the total number of votes if you go to the individual thread.
I am insufficiently motivated by the topic to open all of the individual threads to come up with full voting statistics. :-)
I agree that anonymous downvotes are considerably less friendly than comments. A comment can explain why you think it would be a bad idea, or what part you disagree with, and it has your name attached. There is currently nothing to stop someone from downvoting every suggestion that isn't his own; there are no names attached to the votes, so there would be no way to hold him accountable for such activity.
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It's not something I want to go experimenting with in case I provoke the system - but I think that I'm right to say that I can downvote a Suggestion immediately, whereas I'd have to wait to see any of my comments come up? This is a disincentive to comment and an incentive to downvote as @Julia Szent-Györgyi implies.
There was one suggestion made on the 27 March, which I thought was a bad idea - I could have explained why, but how long would I have had to wait to see that response? So I just downvoted it. And now the Suggestion has been closed with zero visible comments - nothing to explain whether it was a good or bad idea, nothing, in fact, to justify its presumed rejection. I would suggest that the revised process has resulted - in that case - in a result exactly the opposite of what was intended.
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Well, the new instructions do say we shouldn't comment, so, in that case, the revised process is working as intended.
I'm trying to be judicious in downvoting. In the past, if the requested feature already existed, I would have explained how to find it. Now, it's easier to downvote than to phrase an explanation that will not be rejected.
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Áine brings up a good point: in this effectively-commentless new setup, what is the best response to suggestions for existing features? Should we downvote the idea, because it's unnecessary, or should we just not upvote it, since the idea is so sound that the feature already exists? If nobody gets a comment through in time, and other similarly-misinformed users upvote the idea, should we downvote it back to zero? Which would be most useful for the people that the suggestions section is supposed to be helping?
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I'm struggling to understand why a mod/manager does not step in and say "This feature already exists, and you can find it here" on those threads. Mods/managers/staff don't have to wait hoping a comment makes it through the vetting process.
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On suggestions for existing features, I figure the thread made it through moderation because the mod(s) don't know that it's an existing feature. Most of them don't use the site nearly as much as we do, and they're therefore unaware of many details.
This new system is rather an active hindrance to communication, unfortunately.
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Do we need to flag such a suggestion with "This feature already exists, and you can find it here" rather than hoping a reply on the thread makes it through?
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Great discussion. I think I've done roughly the following. About 75% - neutral about an idea in that I don't think it is needed but have no complaints about it and I don't vote at all. About 10% in favor of an idea so up vote it. About 15% against an idea so down vote it.
I've been refraining from making comments until the new system gets the wrinkles straightened out. If comments ever get back to being posted immediately I would then be more inclined to start commenting again both for and against.
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@Áine Ní Donnghaile said
Well, the new instructions do say we shouldn't comment, so, in that case, the revised process is working as intended.
Reaction #1 - oops, I either missed that or (more likely) forgot it.
Reaction #2 - If we're not supposed to comment, then why does the software still allow us to comment?
(Reaction #3 - something's changed in the system because (a) I'm currently typing in a grey box, not white, with a different wire-frame around it and (b) I can't tag Áine unless I copy her full name and prefix it with an "at" sign. Previously I could type the "at", followed by "Aine" and it would offer me her name, despite me being ignorantly English and not providing the accent over the letter "A". )
@Julia Szent-Györgyi asked "Which would be most useful for the people that the suggestions section is supposed to be helping?". The current process is surely a massive disincentive to any suggestor. Based on what I've seen so far, the suggestion, if rejected, is rejected with no explanation, just (presumably) a large number of unexplained and anonymous down-votes. That is a gross insult, I believe. In my professional career, in similar scenarios, it was instilled in me that I had to respond to the proposal.
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The main instructions for Suggest an Idea do specifically allow for comments on suggestions:
But with the long delays in approving comments and the rapid closing of suggestion threads, it's certainly understandable that the current system could be described as "effectively-commentless."
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Alan is correct in saying -
The main instructions for Suggest an Idea do specifically allow for comments on suggestions
The problem in understanding whether we are allowed to comment seems to lie in this section of the guidelines:
I think to many it would be difficult to define what is considered to represent an "opinion". Passing opinions within comments does seem to be disallowed, but it is difficult to see how we can "comment" (which is allowed) without those comments representing our "opinion" - whether phrased in a negative or a positive manner!
In summary, these guidelines are clearly encouraging us to use the upvote / downvote option for our primary response, but there remains some ambiguity over whether we should add even a positive opinion (or is that positive comment?) along the lines of, "Yes, I think this is a great idea". I don't think there can be much confusion about what a "negative critique" means, but beyond that the guidelines do seem to include some room for interpretation. I believe that last point, together with the delay in any moderated / approved comments being displayed, really makes it difficult for other users to want to even make a contribution, at present. That is, beyond voting on the idea - which is probably what "FamilySearch" would prefer us to confine ourselves to doing in any case.
To repeat:
"Voting is the best method provided to express your opinion and assist FamilySearch in gauging the interest of an idea. Upvoting indicates agreement, while downvoting signals disagreement."
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Thank you for explaining that one has to "open" the threads (individually) to see the detailed voting statistics, e.g.
…instead of noting what I was seeing from just looking at the ideas collectively - e.g. just the total downvotes, implying every reaction had been negative:
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And I will repeat that I attempted a constructive - and agreeing - comment on a Suggestion and received a message that it would not be posted.
@Adrian Bruce1 Sorry about the problem with my difficult name. I encountered issues yesterday when trying to add a link in a comment. That method has changed as well. And the URL mangler has gotten worse if that's possible.
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