Copyright Question
If I use RecordSeek and add a source from Ancestry.com to FamilySearch, do copyright laws allow me to also attach an image of the source into FamilySearch? This question also applies to any image from another data base of sources.
Answers
-
It's not a question of copyright. It's a matter of the Terms and Conditions you agreed to when you paid for your subscription on that other website or signed up for a free account if it is not a paywalled record.
This thread has some more information you may find useful.
1 -
Thanks. What about newspaper articles or written material and photos that can be freely searched on the internet without a subscription. An example would be an obituary.
0 -
Every website has terms of use. For example, Legacy.com is one of the free obituary websites. Their Terms of Use: https://www.legacy.com/terms-of-use/
1 -
That is a lot of legal information to wade through. But if a website does not state any terms or conditions, such as I can look for an obituary in Deseret News in Salt Lake, that is easy to look up and find. Can I post a photo from an obituary and post the written obituary?
0 -
EVERY website has Terms of Use: https://www.deseret.com/legal/terms-of-use
1 -
Sorry to be difficult, but I am teaching a class on using RecordSeek at our FamilySearch Center and I want to be accurate in my information. Would the simple answer be to check the Terms of Use of any website you find information on. Can you tell me specifically if photos of documents (parish records, census records, etc) on Ancestry.com can be placed on FamilySearch.
0 -
We should always check the Terms of Use of every website we use.
Ancestry, specifically, has a "share" link option that should be used, rather than copying the image.
1 -
Thank you for your help!
1 -
As has been stated - Terms of Use should always be read - and if unclear the organization should be asked about it.
The problem is That Terms of Use are often written in a way that is vague or misleading or even say things that may not legally stand up in court. (very often INTENTIONALLY done so)
Even FamilySearch has some VERY misleading statements in its T.O.U. - - but not at all out of the norm as to what organizations try to include in their "terms of use" (so as to try ensure that they have the legal advantage if they ever need it) IF is the key word there.Quote: from FS TOU
Unless otherwise indicated, you may view, download, and print materials from this site only for your personal, noncommercial use, or for your use as a volunteer indexer in connection with the FamilySearch Indexing Program pursuant to the FamilySearch Indexing Program Terms and Conditions or the FamilySearch Indexing Software License Agreement.You may not post content from this site on another website or on a computer network without our permission. You may not transmit or distribute content from this site to other sites. You may not use this site or information found at this site (including the names and addresses of those who have submitted information) to sell or promote products or services, to solicit clients, or for any other commercial purpose.I have talked to Numerous people at FS - and they all agreed that this does not really apply to FS Memories items (those of which are in the public domain - copies of images/documnts created before 1923 etc.)
BUT nothing in the quote above says it doenst apply to FS Memories items.
So even though Terms of Use are always good to know - they are often mis-intepreted to mean something it doesnt. and in my experience (though not legal advice!) in most cases I have been involved with - when it involves items like what we see in FS Memories (those portion of items truly in the public domain) - the organization rarely enforces its "terms of use" in that type of item - probably because it would not even stand up in court.
I have had similar dicsussions with Ancesry.com with the same conclusion.
So the truth is - even Terms of Use - leave us in a Gray Area tht many orgnaizations never want to clarify - because they want it to seem they have the legal advantage on their side - when truth is - maybe its not.Its not nearly as Black and White as everyone would wish it was.
1 -
Thank you!
0 -
As to the example of "Obituaries"
that focus brings yet another complex layer of "it depends" …As discussed above Copyright Law and Terms of Use Law are two different laws and one does not infer the other. Also the fact already discussed that most organizations will NOT enforce terms of use law on items that are already in the public domain (and that they themselves never created the originals")
So even a simple question like "who has the copyright on an obituary in Deseret News - has an "it depends" answer that even further "muddies the water" of what has been stated above.
Most people just assume an obituary from the Deseret News - is copyrighted by Deseret News and that terms of use on the Deseret News site would apply. As to the copyright - the truth is a large portion of obituaries do not fall under the copyright of the publisher (since they didnt come up with the words of the obituary). Publishing doesnt necessarily infer copyright. Unless otherwise legally transferred - a copyright is normally retained by whoever originally created the item in question (in this case the text of an obutuary). The people who most often create the wording of an obituary are the FAMILY - and not the NEWSPAPER. In most of such cases - legally speaking it is the family who has the copyright. (Even if the Newspaper displays a copyright or even if the obituary comes with a newspaper copyright. There are, however, more chances of terms of use being held up in courts - but as already discussed - most organizations tend not to enforce terms of use law on public domain items. Note anything created before around 1923 is usually considered in and of itself in the public domain. Also if an obuituary is merely a collection of facts with little artistic originality - that also is not covered by copyright.
So truth is there are pobably millions of obituaries posted on FS Memories - that no one is yelling out "Foul" on and claiming ownership. I even heard once for example that one of the FS leaders contacted Newspapers.com and asked them if it was ok for people to post obituaries from their site on FS Memories. And I am told Newspapers.com actually said it was ok - (even though Im guessing theire Terms of Use says the contrary).
So in the end - I suggest people do a little research into their legal rights as to posting obituaries etc. and that they then act in good faith -and if in the end someone challenges their good faith action - then the item be withdrawn from FS Memories.
Keep in mind - anyone can slap a copyright on anything - and anyone can come up with terms of use statements - whether such things are held up in courts is a different question. But You and I are not lawyers.In short - the chances of having someone actually call you out on posting an obituary they claim copyright on - is very small. And the chances of it being taken to court and them actually winning dammages is even MORE EXTREMELY remote.
Im not saying its oks to break the law if no one is enforcing it - - Im not sayng that at all!!
But after doing a good faith effort to understand my rights - I have posted thousands of obituaries on FS Memories (without obtaining permission on a case by case basis)
I have yet to be called out on a single case. And If I was called out on a case - if I felt they had a fair legal claim - I would indeed remove it from FS Memories at their request - and I imagine that would be the end of it.
The chances of someone taking you to court over an obituary and actually obtaining legal damages - is so small, in my mind, its not worth losing any sleep over.
And just remember - just because someone claims copyright or terms of use - doesnt necessarily mean its legit. I have done my research and I am acting on what I believe is within the law and within my rights.
see this page for a collection of supporting information and sites
[None of the above is "legal advice"]0
