Sign-In Page
Comments
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I was on my computer this morning working in Family Tree. When I came home for lunch hours later I had fifteen minutes free so I went to check something and did not have to sign in. Went back to work, came home, had dinner, went to the grocery store, sat down at 7:30, opened my laptop, and did not have to sign in to FamilySearch. Just picked up where I left off.
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I'm sure I've noticed a definite change over the last few days or so. I, too, seem to have been away from my computer for several hours, but still haven't had to sign in again on my return. Great for when working from home, but what about FamilySearch's previous "security reasons" comments on why we should not use the "2 weeks" option when in a public place? Have those worries now been sidelined, or does the "system" know when we are working from a public place and restrict the sign in period accordingly? It seems FamilySearch engineers have created extra work for themselves by scrapping the "two week" option, together with the warning note that accompanied it.
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This morning, ten hours since I was last on my laptop, I did have to sign in to the first page I looked at that I left open. However, when I went to the other tab that was also open, I did not have to sign into it.
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So is there still a good reason why we still have to do a separate sign-in for the Community?
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@Adrian Bruce1, signing in to Community also signs me in to the main site, and as far as I've been able to tell this past week, activity in the one keeps me signed in on the other. Have you been having a different experience?
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@Julia Szent-Györgyi - if I sign into the main-site first, and then go to the community, I still have to hit the sign-in button, though I don't need to enter my id & password. I have no understanding why that is necessary and why one can't carry over to the other.
Under the old system, the "keep me logged in" applied to the main-site only and if I went to the Community first, then I always had to enter my id and password. Not sure how long that signed-in state persisted - no more than the day, I think.
I can't usefully tell what happens now because I keep reverting to the old login process on the main-site.
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I can't usefully tell what happens now because I keep reverting to the old login process on the main-site.
I've just cleared the 60-odd FamilySearch cookies using Firefox's facility, rebooted and went into the new login process. I wonder if that will stick?
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I went into the Community first, logged in, then went to the main-site and I'm fully logged in - no need to even press a sign-in button.
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On the other hand... If I go into the main-site first, login, and then go to the community, I do have to press the sign-in button but don't need to supply an id or password.
So the two directions don't match up.
(Apologies if this is all disjointed but I have to clear my FS cookies and close the browser before trying the next option, so it's a bit of a lengthy process.)
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This seems to have disappeared since Roots Tech covers the whole home page. PLEASE, on my home computer I want that feature! Of course we don't check that box on a public computer, but at home, when I am off and on frequently, this has been so appreciated! Was it oversight, or by design?
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See https://www.familysearch.org/en/blog/remove-2-week-sign-in as well as several threads here in the Community.
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@ketherin - c, where did you see the information about the release on Nov 16th ?
So I just checked, I had signed-in this morning as usual,no checkbox to stay signed-in or notice, then I "X" out after reading this Community post then when I when to familysearch.org again I was still signed in. No indication if this is for a certain time period etc. What will happen if I sign-in to a public computer?
I just checked again after a half hour wait, and I am no longer signed-in.
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I signed into FS this morning, having to go through the full enter login process.
I closed my browser, left it less than an hour I would say, opened my browser again, went into FS and had to go through the full enter login process. I let my cookies remain there after closing the browser, by the way.
I shut my machine down (properly shut down, not sleep mode). When I started it up this afternoon and went into FS, again I had to go through the full enter login process. Ironically, when I went into the Community before logging into FS proper this afternoon, I was still logged into the Community - didn't even have to press the sign-in button.
So it's still a pain for me.
I wonder what exactly the metrics were for these proposals? And why?
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If you have browser settings or add-ons/extensions which delete cookies, especially when the browser closes, this will affect this function from working properly. I know some like these because it improves personal security. Unfortunately, with so many different configurations, FamilySearch cannot work around them all. It has been designed to work with basic, standard configurations on most recent browser versions with some capability for slightly older versions. See https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/which-internet-browsers-are-compatible
It should work the same on all computers unless those managing the public, or otherwise owned, computers have installed something like you might have done on your personal computers.
(To answer Chas Howell's question, I am a FamilySearch employee and work with the engineers from a support perspective on various issues including this one. I have other communication paths with them.)
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@ketherin - c said (perfectly reasonably)
" ... Unfortunately, with so many different configurations, FamilySearch cannot work around them all. ... "
I use the latest version of Firefox from Windows - a perfectly normal set-up. I long since gave up deleting cookies since to do so meant that I had to logon to Ancestry (or FindMyPast or ...) every day. So my cookies remain on the disk for a long time - I'd say forever, but that's pushing it a bit.
I don't think it's too much to ask of FamilySearch to use cookies, or similar, in the way that Ancestry do, so that I don't need to logon multiple times a day.
My concern with this change is that there is no concrete information being provided. No information on what the metrics are for how long I stay logged in, nor what breaks the login - just vague phrases in that blog such as "they will remain signed in for a time" (how long is "a time"?) "as long as they are actively using the site" (what counts as actively using? What stops the active use? Closing the browser?)
What exactly was the update of "Thursday, Nov 16 around 5 pm"? What change should we have expected to see? Did it alter what was in the blog? Sorry, but I find it difficult to comment usefully if I don't know what was supposed to happen.
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It is very annoying to have to sign in each time I leave and return to Family Search. What happened to the previous version to allow pne to remain signed in for two weeks with a church account?
Please don't penalize those who use Family Search with these unnecessary sign ins!
Edward Spencer
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On the subject of repeated unnecessary sign ins, this Process in a great distraction and makes it hard to keep the Spirit when wondering what is happening here with this program.
Why can't people leave it alone?
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@Spencer Edward Chipman I found this article. It doesn't fix the problem. But perhaps gives an explanation.
I noticed this statement in the article: Stay Signed In feature provides a higher security risk
Not a fix, just a bit more info.
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@Rhonda Budvarson noticed...
" ... Stay Signed In feature provides a higher security risk ... "
I'm not convinced. Linking up to Facebook and Google isn't something that appeals to me but surely FS aren't implying that's a security risk, given that they just introduced it?
Put it like this - Ancestry and FindmyPast manage to keep me signed in - and they have my credit card details on their site...
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I just spent 45 minutes writing a comment about the new Log In and posted the comment. Lost it, couldn’t find it, and called the Help Center, who called the Community Help Center. After another 25 minutes, gave up. The Help Center gave me their “ALL”, and it was appreciated. Community is not a friendly place to be. Too many ways to do the same thing. And never get to the same place twice. The “Dewey Decimal System” would take me to the correct place every time.
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I agree, I read the article and it mentioned many users reporting they were not being kept signed into the site. I have to wonder about user error - as I never had the problem and use the site daily, and on various devices over the course of a week (tablet, laptop, desktop, phone). I don't want to sign in with google or facebook, as I prefer a little more privacy than that affords. I would love to see a "stay signed in" feature brought back - maybe with two factor authentication it could be made "safer" or more agreeable to Family Search administration?
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@FamilyHistorian23 commented:
" ... it mentioned many users reporting they were not being kept signed into the site. I have to wonder about user error ... "
I may have mentioned this before but it would have been elsewhere...
I do wonder if the complaints were a misunderstanding. When I could stay signed in for a period, then when I went back to the site, I still had to press the sign-in button. I just didn't need to enter my identity nor my password. (I assume this was how it worked for everyone). I speculate that the complaints about not being kept signed in, arose from the fact that people still had to press that sign-in button - and they missed that they didn't supply their ids or passwords.
Certainly plenty of people complained in the Community that the "keep me signed in" bit didn't work - we usually suggested that you always had to press the sign-in button - it was just the rest that was avoided. If I recall correctly, no-one ever came back to say that we were right - which tended to suggest either that we were totally wrong and the complainants had given up on us, or that we were right and people then just took it as a matter of course.
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I am also frustrated with the changes. I never had any issues with the "stay logged in for two weeks" feature in all the many years that I've been using it.
Staying logged in on my home computer is far less of a security risk than using other log-ins (Google, FB, etc.) to access FS. In essence you're using the same ID and password on multiple sites—exactly what security experts advise us NOT to do. Even riskier if you do this on a public computer and forget to log out! The implication seems to be that using one of these options would alleviate the problem of automatic logging out. But that seems to create a security problem where one didn't exist.
With the changes, if I go to an open tab and am forced to log in, it takes me back to the home page rather than the page I was working on. Super frustrating when you were several hundred pages into an un-indexed film of wills!
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I have to wonder if the new sign-in routine is running into some very user configuration specific problems.
This is because I have found the new update to work just fine. I only need to sign in once every 24 hours. If I have more than one tab open, I only have to sign in to one of those tabs. I can then go right to work on any of the others. When I do sign in to that one tab, it stays right on the page I was on. All the tabs stay right where they are. None of them go to the home page.
Security stuff is pretty tricky and I have to imagine it is nearly impossible to test a security update on every possible system configuration or make it work on them. I would suggest that people who are having problems with the update start posting the details of their personal set up regarding:
- Device being used.
- Operating system being used and version.
- Browser being used and version.
That might give the engineers some clues as to what is going on.
I'm on a Macbook with OS Sonoma 14.1 using Safari 17.1 and really like the change. The other day I signed into FamilySearch at 7 am and worked for a bit, closed my laptop, went off to work, came home, had dinner, opened my laptop, woke it up, and went right back to work without needing to sign back in. I've been wondering what would happen if I put my laptop to sleep at 11:50 pm then tried to get back in to FamilySearch at 12:10 am but don't really have a strong enough urge to test that.
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@Gordon Collett - my best guess is that the differences in people's experiences is less to do with quirky security relevant configuration details, and more to do with just how people use the system.
Background: I work intermittently in FS - my main focus is my desktop software so I mostly go into FS to find records.
When I've finished my immediate FS task, I close those tabs that had been used for FS.
After a while, I will close my browser - I don't like being confused by icons that aren't relevant to my current tasks.
If I'm going shopping, making a meal, going to watch Star Trek, etc, I close the PC down. Full power Off - not Sleep Mode.
When I start my PC and (eventually) open the browser, it opens with one single tab, which is empty. I don't restore tabs. If I need to return to someone, that's what the Recent List is for...
For comparison, I do all of the above and don't have to supply my password to Ancestry for days at a time.
In the list above, I have omitted any browser or PC specific security measures that might be activated. For instance, people might have set their browser to clear all cookies and internet data when they close their browser. I don't do that because it would mean that I have to sign in to Ancestry etc every time I open the browser. Anyone who does clear their cookies etc, will surely lose sign-in, but may not realise that.
Now, any or all of the above actions might remove the cookies or whatever FS use to persist my sign-in, I don't know. Since FS have not been any more specific than "some time" to describe the persistence, it is next to impossible for people to diagnose when they lose sign-in status - there are simply too many variables for us to track.
If FS want to set our expectations, get our help in diagnosing issues, they need to tell us what to expect, and when, and not take refuge in meaningless phrases like "for some time".
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For a few weeks now, it has been very uncomfortable for me to have to put my password every time I change pages. I don't understand why things that worked well are changed . That option must remain. There was the option not to select that function if you didn't want to remain logged.
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As someone who never did find a way to stay signed in for two weeks, I am quite happy that I now find at least I can now stay signed in all day - or at least until I close my browser (Firefox or Chrome - Windows 10).
However, as the former option did work for many users I can see no reason why it was removed by the engineers. Security can certainly not be the issue, unless FamilySearch processes make it possible to identify the location of the device on which the website is being used (public or private). Surely, if users are no longer automatically logged out after a short time when at a public place, there is a bigger security issue now than previously!
It's so sad that, for the most part, the engineers and other FS employees do not want to engage with the FamilySearch Community and explain actions / changes that are often completely baffling to the average user.
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The Community uses a different header than the rest of the site and doesn't always get updated like other pages to recognize the changes.
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Additional tips to try:
- Private or incognito mode. If it works better by staying signed in longer in private or incognito mode, and without purposefully signing out or closing the browser, then an add-on or extension on your computer is the problem.
While it is unlikely FamilySearch will reveal the specific inactivity length publicly, as some have mentioned above, it is several hours. FamilySearch is aware of concerns on public computers and are looking at ways to resolve this but the usage at public computers is fairly small compared to private devices. However, it is not just the responsibility of FamilySearch but the person using the public computer too.
I thought I was staying signed in when I closed my browser but this morning, I am getting kicked out too. I am investigating with the engineers to see if we can figure out what is going on.
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I am investigating with the engineers to see if we can figure out what is going on.
This suggests you are a moderator or an employee. Perhaps you could confirm your "role", as your profile just shows "Member". Regardless, perhaps through your liaising with the engineers you might be able to ascertain / report back as to why this seemingly backward step has been made.
The Blog article states: "...and considering the Stay Signed In feature provides a higher security risk, the check box has now been removed."
At least the old page (with 2-week sign in option) carried a warning that it should not be used in public places. So, the security risk still exists, but now with no warning to sign out when finishing your session in a public place!
Also, as others have noted, the seemingly logical "first" choice for directly signing into ones public account now appears as the fifth option on the new sign-in page! (Behind signing in through Facebook, Google, Apple or Church Account.)
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