Three more damaged placename standardizations to be fixed (plus many associated ones?)
All three from "Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913" index.
Civil birth registrations for three of the children born to James Cusack and Margaret Luther in Coolyregan, Mitchelstown, County Cork (NOT County Meath) - Search: ‘Coolyregan’ | logainm.ie
Here are the links to the 'James Cusack in entry for XYZ, "Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913"' indexed sources
I suspect that the associated 'Margaret Luther in entry for XYZ, "Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913"' and 'XYZ, "Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913"' indexed sources will have the same problem and will also need to be fixed.
Answers
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While I have every sympathy with auto-standardisation issues (as witness my latest missive on the subject over Crewe mapping onto Crewe By Farndon), I fear that there are two distinct issues here.
Hannora Cusack's 1874 birth has an "Event Place (Original)" of "Coolyregan, Mitchelstown", which has been mapped by auto-standardisation onto "Mitchelstown, County Meath, Ireland". I believe that the way forward is to request a new Standard Place of Coolyregan, with a (civil) parish of Brigown, and county of Cork. That ought to fix any new auto-standardisation entries - not sure how long it will take to fix the existing mappings.
Margaret Cusack's 1871 birth appears to be the same issue with the same (presumed) solution.
Mary Cusack's 1873 birth is a different issue, which is a potential pain. Her index has an "Event Place (Original)" of "Mitchelstown" - and only that. There are Mitchelstowns in Counties Meath, Limerick, Cork and Louth - according to the Standard Places. I don't think it's a case of data being recently lost from the index because Ancestry's version of the entry appears to be the same, viz:
- Name Mary Cusack
- Birth Date 1873
- Birth Place Mitchelstown, Ireland
- Birth Registration Date 1873
- Birth Registration Place Ireland
- Volume 4
- Page 944
I see nothing on that entry that would indicate to any IT system that it's a birth in County Cork. Please note that I am not challenging the conclusion that it is in Co. Cork, just pointing out that the system is going to have major difficulties in coming to that conclusion from the index entry supplied.
About the only possibility I can think of, is to look at the Volume number but I've got no feeling for what the Irish volume numbers map onto. Any bright ideas will be gratefully accepted!
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Volume numbers on Irish Civil Registration have to do with dates, not places. 1864, the first year of birth registration, has 20 volumes. With the exception of late reports, Volume 1 will be the earliest part of the year, and Volume 20 will be the last part of the year. The Registration place (Mitchelstown in your example) is a Registration District, tied to the PLU (Poor Law Union). This map from Find My Past has all the districts:
As an example of date correlating to volume, one of my ancestors was born in August 1864, and her birth is listed in Vol 17.
The birth of a child born in December is likely to be found in Volume 1 of the following year.
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Thanks, @Áine Ní Donnghaile - I'm glad someone understands those numbers.
But you may have hit on the way to handle it...
For the "Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913" collection:
If the Event Place (Original) matches a single Standard Place, then use that.
If the Event Place (Original) matches multiple Standard Places, use the first Standard Place that has a type of "Civil Registration District".
If the above both fail, revert to the current processing.
In these cases, Mary has an "Event Place (Original)" of "Mitchelstown". There are multiple Standard Places matching "Mitchelstown". There are two Standard Places that have a type of "Civil Registration District" (not sure why). The first one appears to be "Mitchelstown, County Cork, Ireland", so use that - it's what is needed here.
Hannora and Margaret have an Event Place (Original) of "Coolyregan, Mitchelstown". If Coolyregan has been entered as "Coolyregan, Brigown, Co. Cork, Ireland", then I am hoping that it'll be the only match. Otherwise, if there are several matches (because there always are multiple townlands with the same name I fear!) then just look for the match with a type of "Civil Registration District". Which will be "Mitchelstown, County Cork, Ireland". I hope...
My idea is definitely a collection-dependent tweak to the auto-standardisation algorithm. I've no idea if FamilySearch do that sort of thing or if I've missed essential elements - but I think that's a basis.
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We had that discussion with N Tychonievich in late July - that standardized places need updating/correcting for Ireland. https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/149021/error-report-placename-standardization
The Registration District does not include the County name since many districts overlap county lines. Mitchelstown is partly in Limerick and partly in Cork. Mary Cusack's birth, on the free Irish government site, shows that. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03207/2175982.pdf And a good reference for Irish Civil Registration: https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-civil-registration.html
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@Áine Ní Donnghaile said "We had that discussion with N Tychonievich in late July - that standardized places need updating/correcting for Ireland ..."
Yes - thanks for the reminder. I'm sure that you're right in that adding all the Townlands can only be a major step forward. I'd hope (but am not at all certain) that adding Coolyregan will fix two of the 3.
But that still leaves poor Mary with her "Event Place (Original)" of "Mitchelstown". Somehow, as you referred to on that other thread, the algorithm needs to pick up a more useful placename by homing in on a specific type of placename. That's the reason for my suggestion above, to look for a place with the type of "Civil Registration District".
Thanks for finding Mary Cusack's birth - the really weird thing is that Mary has come through with just "Mitchelstown" as the placename of birth, while Hannora has come through as "Coolyregan, Mitchelstown". And yet, when I found Hannora's BC and compared it to Mary's - they are, as far as placenames go, identical. Both have Superintendent Registrar's District = Mitchelstown; Registrar's District = Mitchelstown and townland (i.e. the place in Date & Place of Birth) = Coolyregan. All 3 are identical yet, as I say, one's come through to FamilySearch as "Coolyregan, Mitchelstown" and the other's come through as just "Mitchelstown".
Makes it really difficult for me to see a pattern to suggest anything...
"... The Registration District does not include the County name since many districts overlap county lines. Mitchelstown is partly in Limerick and partly in Cork ... "
Good point.
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Irish civil registration births have been indexed multiple times by FamilySearch. Not every project asked for the same fields to be indexed.
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I've just suggested a new place Coolyregan - details posted here Are there any Irish RC parishes in FamilySearch places ? — FamilySearch Community.
Point taken about the place in Mary's birth registration index being specified as just 'Mitchelstown', so Coolyregan shouldn't be added there.
I'm trying to remember to click the orange text to enter the place details exactly as I typed it and then selecting the standardized place by hand. But many times, especially if I'm tired or hurried, I forget and just hit enter which replaces what I've typed with the first (usually incorrect) place from the list.
But I've just come across a placename standardization problem that I'd never noticed before. While I'm typing into the place field the list of standardized places that displays below changes depending on whether a particular letter is upper or lowercase. If I've just typed this much I can change the single letter, the P of parish, from upper to lower and vice versa and the list changes.
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Oh! That I didn't realise - my head just thinks all events of the same type in the same collection would have been indexed the same. That could explain different index values, then.
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@kob3203 said
" ... If I've just typed this much I can change the single letter, the P of parish, from upper to lower and vice versa and the list changes ..."
How strange. And that happens for me as well. I didn't find any others that did that strange flip-flop so I have no insight into wait might be going on...
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FWIW - there are also indexes of Irish civil registration that have been indexed. An example:
You can tell the difference when you search for them on FamilySearch by the film number format, as well as the level of detail included.
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