Index does not provide last names, other vital parent data missing also

mar60

"Deutschland, Preußen, Westpreußen, Katholische und Lutherisch Kirchenbücher, 1537-1981", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8N-F9WH?cc=4111605 : 20 December 2022). Not sure if some kind of AI software is assisting but it is EXTREMELY difficult when only a first name is provided. ALL DATA is relevant to identify the correct person as MANY. MANY families reused first names between siblings, through MULTIPLE generations in addition to other family branches or unrelated family with same surname. Families reused first names if previous child had died. With some customs to use 3 - 4 names with any one of those 3 - 4 names being used in various sources makes it even more confusing when working 4 - 99 generations back in time.

mar60

"Deutschland, Preußen, Westpreußen, Katholische und Lutherisch Kirchenbücher, 1537-1981", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FY1-4QJS : 17 June 2022), Gottfried, 1789. The even number pages would have VITAL records of parents or other critical data to confirm identity of person. The index below image only shows first name (though 'hint' provided last name) but no parents listed with mother's maiden name that is critical. I believe it was a custom for ALL families to name members after other members so it is confusing enough.

Áine Ní Donnghaile

Many of the old registers were photographed all left pages together and then all right pages together. With the older cameras, it was difficult to keep the old records in focus, and imaging in that manner was much easier for the photographer.

It would be great if the images had been assembled in order, but some of them are not. Many times, you will find all the rights together, after all the lefts. Sometimes, they are on a separate film.

Maile L

Looking at the Catalog, it appears the left side of the pages are found on DGS 102624714 (yellow) and the right sides are on DGS 102624763 (blue). An additional filming of the book is on DGS 102619987 (green).

Here is the left side and the right side of Gottfried's record indexed here. The full page image is here and indexed here.

I have passed this information on to a team that can review the images in the hope they can be better linked. Hope this helps. Maile 🙂

Áine Ní Donnghaile

I took a quick look at this database, and I think this is another example of a church register that was filmed in the format of all righthand pages and, separately, all lefthand pages.

@Maile L Could you please take a look and perhaps escalate this one? As I recall, you did the same with another example. (Reference to the earlier thread: https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/525585/#Comment_525585)

Thanks.

Maile L

The left side of the image is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8N-F9WH and the right side is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8N-FGBR. There is another filming of this with both together at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS86-B9S4-K.

I will report the index error. For now I would suggest adding all three images to the individual's sources with a note that the indexing is incomplete for the split page.

For example: Anna Maria has https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FY1-ZM2H and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPX6-Y731 and then use the source box to "Attach to Family Tree" the right page that has not been indexed.

Áine Ní Donnghaile

Thank you, @Maile L.

mar60

I cannot believe this is a solution. With pages disjointed into two or more films, HOW do I know if I have the correct lines matched up?! Why was this allowed to breakup a source in this way? A book should ALWAYS stay as ONE with all pages in order as the Authentic Source. It is hard enough working with foreign languages, old writing styles, people with same name - some in same family as siblings or cousins while others are not related. I cannot piece back information and rely on mismatched data. I hope this can be fixed to put the books back together AND to stop this practice of splitting books into multiple films. Another example is that one side (ie 'lefts') show info on couples marrying however the disjointed 'rights', I am guessing, has the event date and possibly parent information. So this marriage info is worthless without date and other relevant data.

Julia Szent-Györgyi

@mar60, if you check the catalog page for the films in question (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/203169), you'll see that they were made 65 years ago. The practice of filming the rectos and versos separately has already stopped, decades ago. (In fact, the practice of filming has stopped. They skip that step and go straight to digital scans, nowadays.)

As Maile noted, the filming was re-done at some point, and there are films of at least some of these registers that don't separate the sides. Those unseparated films have the "legal record custodian" access message for me, but people with LDS accounts may be able to see them on FS. (That's what Maile's post implies, anyway.)

If only the separated images are available, it unquestionably makes research in them an order of magnitude harder than it would be with sequential images -- but it's still infinitely easier than it would be with no images at all.

mar60

I had no idea films were from 1950s. I never looked at when a dataset was created nor have used the catalog to know the source type of film vs digital scan. Since working online with Familysearch 15 years ago, I have relied primarily on "indexed data" after using search feature; and used the source images to verify/validate names, especially maiden names, as well as date and place. Though I don't know German etc, I have learned a few words and have been able to identify family surnames in most scripts. I am not an LDS member and know I don't have member access; and was not able to get to the combined record Maile L noted. Thanks for the clarification.

Áine Ní Donnghaile

@mar60 I'm also not an LDS member. I do live very near an excellent Affiliate Library and a tiny FSC, so I have good access to many records that are restricted. I started using FamilySearch by ordering microfilms before digitization. Many of the records I viewed on microfilm are now digitized but most are still not indexed to be searchable by name.

There is so much more available that is not indexed but that can be viewed by using the Catalog and/or the Images feature. I highly recommend dipping your toe in the unindexed pond. FS offers periodic classes on how to use the unindexed records.

Happy hunting!