Help Center Article needs revision: Dates and Places.

Gordon Collett

It's been a couple of years since I posted suggested revisions to the Help Center article "How do I enter dates and places into Family Tree?" Since there continues to be significant confusion on how to enter place names in Family Tree, I checked there again today and while the current version dated May 31, 2023, is not quite as bad as the old one, it still does not clearly explain the process of entering dates and places and does nothing to help educate users about the dual data entry used in Family Tree. I realize that these help center articles do need to be concise and cannot go into every detail, but this article could be better.

Here for your consideration, and I hope inclusion, are my suggested revisions. My additions are in bold and subtractions are struck through.

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How do I enter dates and places into Family Tree?

Article Id: 1417

May 31, 2023

Linking user entered dates and places to Using standard formats reference values for dates and places in Family Tree improves the accuracy and searchability of the information you enter.

Before you start

• Many places have or have had the same or similar names. People write dates in many ways. Family Tree helps you standardize avoid ambiguous dates and places as you enter them.
• Linking entered dates and places to standard reference values for Standardized dates and places (also called "standards") improves the accuracy of the search, record hints, and duplicates features of Family Tree.
• The list of standard reference values standardized versions can speed up data entry for you.
• When a date or place does not have is not linked to a standard, Family Tree identifies it as a data problem and displays a red exclamation point next to it the message “Non-standardized place (or date)” in red underneath it. To fix this problem, open the Edit box, click on “No Standard Selected,” and select a standard.

Steps (website)

1. In a date or place field in Family Tree, begin typing the date or place. For places, start with the smallest geographical area. This may be a street address, neighborhood, cemetery or similar feature.

• Tips for dates: 
• 29 February standardizes only for leap years.
• Use B.C. or B.C.E. for "before Christ" or "Before Common Era." The standard shows as B.C.
• Family Tree standardizes calculates using the Gregorian calendar. To enter a date from another calendar, enter the date, type a space, and then enter the Gregorian version of that date (Day-Month-Year). For example, if a birth date occurred on December 31, 2003, you would type: "31 December 2003."
• Enter dates in the Day-Month-Year format and type out the month. For example, if a birth date occurred on December 31, 2003, you would type: "31 December 2003."
• In the drop-down list, standardized dates have a calendar icon.

• Tips for places: 
• The database of standard reference values for places is not yet complete. The standards will improve over time. The number of included place names is continually increasing.
• If possible, enter the place-name as it existed when the event happened.
• You can have the option to enter places in your native language or the native language of that place.

2. As you type, the system displays a drop-down menu with of the available standards which can be used for the quick entry of a date or place. Click the correct one. 

• If at any time the full date or place name you wish to enter appears in the drop-down menu, click in the menu to complete entering that value.
• If the full date or place name you wish to enter does not appear in the drop-down menu, finish typing out the complete value then click on the top line of the drop down menu which shows in red what you just typed.

3. After entering the date or place, proofread the linked standard if displayed.

• If you chose a value from the drop-down menu, the linked standard will not display.
• If you typed out the full value and chose the red type, the default linked standard will display. This will usually be a place name that is one geographical level up from what you entered or an alternate spelling for what you entered.
• If the correct standard is not available, retype the date or place. If none of the options match, save what you typed by clicking the first item in the drop-down menu. Family Tree selects a standard if it can.
• To select no standard, click the mouse somewhere else on the screen. 
• To change the standard, simply click in the field, and choose the one you want.
• If the displayed linked standard is not correct, click on it to open a drop down menu of available alternate standards and click on the appropriate one. If none are correct, scroll to the bottom of the list and click on “None of the above.”

4. The system will likely prompt you to update the reason why the information is correct. Do this, then click Save. 

Adrian Bruce1

1) "Family Tree calculates using the Gregorian calendar. To enter a date from another calendar, enter the date, type a space, and then enter the Gregorian version of that date"

Is this meaningful if you don't know what the Gregorian calendar or its alternatives are?

2) I know that one is not supposed to include a negative (i.e. no "Thou shalt not...) but sometimes isn't it better to take the bull by the horns? How about:

The process of standardising a place or date does not require that the displayed place or date exactly match a linked standard. In particular, do not remove information from the displayed place or date in order to make it match a standard.

Gordon Collett

I'm not sure what to do with that calendar comment so I didn't do much with that paragraph. Maybe it just needs an example:

Family Tree calculates using the Gregorian calendar. To enter a date from another calendar, enter the date, type a space, and then enter the Gregorian version of that date. For example: 26 Mordad 1402 17 August 2023.

But I think it needs more than a space between the two, maybe an =? Then it would look like "26 Mordad 1402 = 17 August 2023." That might require a programming update to allow an "illegal" character.

That would make the paragraph be:

Family Tree calculates using the Gregorian calendar. To enter a date from another calendar, enter the date, type an equals sign, and then enter the Gregorian version of that date. For example: 26 Mordad 1402 = 17 August 2023.

Maybe the first paragraph could be:

Family Tree is designed to allow users to enter full, complete, informative place names with as much detail as needed or desired for any situation. These user entered place names are then linked to an appropriate, often less complete, place name. Linking user entered dates and places to Using standard formats reference values for dates and places in Family Tree improves the accuracy and searchability of the information you enter.

Adrian Bruce1

"These user entered place names are then linked to an appropriate, often less complete, place name"

That sounds a good way of putting it, @Gordon Collett .

Experimenting in Beta, I found that

"26 Mordad 1402 (17 August 2023)"

was a viable way to make the system choose the right standard and it looks OK from a logical, textual viewpoint. Somehow sticking an equals sign between the two versions doesn't work for me from a reading viewpoint. Others may disagree!

Julia Szent-Györgyi

For the non-Gregorian calendar example, I'm wondering if a Julian date would be more useful/informative? Those look identical to Gregorian dates, so it'd be good to figure out a form of punctuation for them that is both accepted by the system and makes sense to people.

4 October 1582 (14 October 1582)

4 October 1582 Julian (14 October 1582 Gregorian)

4 October 1582 (Julian), 14 October 1582 (Gregorian)

4 October 1582 (J), 14 October 1582 (G)

Or something else?

I just tested those four, and while they're all accepted, none of them correctly default to the Gregorian date, because the Julian date is earlier and is therefore usually listed first.

Adrian Bruce1

I'm just wondering if we are in danger of trying to pack too much into this Help Centre article. Given the plethora of ways to make FS choose a standard and to make that standard stick even when I want to manipulate the display value, I wonder if this article ought simply to say that the two can differ (an example probably is needed) and then to cross-refer to some other instructions with more complex examples?

For instance, displaying "32 High St., Nantwich, Cheshire, England" and standardising on "Nantwich, Cheshire, England" or displaying "Thursday 17 August 2023" and standardising on "17 August 2023" would serve as basic examples.

I do like the cross-calendar example - I'd never thought how I might do it if I wanted to - It's just that maybe it ought to be in Standardisation 102, not Standardisation 101?

Gordon Collett

The main place I've used multiple "calendars" is when a parish record only uses named days. I enter them as 14. Trinitas [15 August] 1725 (to completely make up an example - don't go checking the conversion!) and linking to 15 August 1725 hoping that most people understand the meaning of square brackets as showing an editorial comment. It works quite well but does take some advanced tinkering sometime.

I agree this article needs to be kept simple. But explaining that one is supposed to click on that red type line and then proofread the standard is a critical basic instruction that need to be presented right of the bat as "the way things are to be done" not as an afterthought work around in a secondary article.

Adrian Bruce1

"... explaining that one is supposed to click on that red type line and then proofread the standard is a critical basic instruction that need to be presented right of the bat as "the way things are to be done" not as an afterthought work around in a secondary article ..."

@Gordon Collett - I'll buy that. Especially "proofread"

Maile L

In case you need it, here is the Help Center article How to provide content feedback or request new instruction

Gordon Collett

@Maile L thanks for the link. I never knew such a thing existed. I've submitted my suggestions with the modifications other posters here have suggested.