Adding and tagging marriage sources

YvonneCariveau

Title: Automatically add source for sources attached to marriage events to each partner

When we add a source for a marriage event, automatically add that source to each partner in the marriage on their SOURCES page.

Detail: When I add a source for a marriage record to the marriage event, it adds that source to that event, but does not add it to the sources for each of the partners in the marriage.

For example, https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LYR6-VST did not automatically have that source attached - I had to go to his Sources and to his wife's and manually attach that same source to each.

Why - it's important to be able to see the names people use throughout their lives in the SOURCES list and the marriage record is often a clue to middle initials and names from multiple marriages. Plus, it would save us lots of inefficient clicking.

Thanks!

YvonneCariveau

Provide us with a Marriage Tag for Sources that would work like Birth, Death, etc. if the person had one marriage.

IF the person had two marriages, clicking that Tag could offer the marriages to pick from similar to how you do Residences now.

This could then show in the Couple Relationship - Marriage Event as a source.

This would save a ton of time marking sources that show marital relationship from the Sources page.

Thanks!

BigelowAnna

Yes, please!! It's currently incredibly inefficient to add to all 3 people's "source" tag, and also to the "marriage source" section.

With the current layout, you also have to click the "edit" pencil to even see that there is a marriage source, so anyone new to Family Search may miss vital information.

MerryO

• What are you trying to accomplish? Why? Tagging source to MARRIAGE event, to improve documentation of the MARRIAGE event, and to help avoid contention and improve communications among family members/users.
• What is the challenge or roadblock you are encountering? Because MARRIAGE event does not include a drop-down list of the attached sources (as available in other vital events), I've had to call Helpline; we found a convoluted way to tag the source to the marriage event but that method certainly is not consistent with the ease found for the other vital events.
• What is your idea? Please add the drop-down feature (drop-down list of sources) to the MARRIAGE event. HELP!!!!!
• How would solving this challenge improve your experience? Prevent having to spend undue time trying to connect document to the marriage event; help avoid contention and improve communications among family members/users. HELP!!!!!

Gordon Collett

Tagging of sources to marriage events is currently available and works fine.

However, you can only tag Couple Relationship Sources to Couple Relationship events. That source list is a separate source list from an individual's source list and is found on the couple relationship page. Just like we need to add sources to a person before we can tag them to a person's detail page, we need to first add sources to the couple relationship. After this source list is created, as shown here:

Then they can be tagged to the couple event on the Detail page:

As this is a new feature in Family Tree, I expect we will see further improvements in this feature in later updates.

RTorchia

@Gordon Collett It's pretty clear what people are looking for here is a way to add a source from the person's source list to the relationships source list. Getting sources that have already been linked to a person into the Relationship source list is absurdly convoluted currently.

Gordon Collett

The initial post talks about tagging a source to an event, "similar to how you do Residences now." So clearly this post is about tagging, not about attaching or adding a source. It does mention moving a source from the individual source list to the couple relationship source list but tagging never does that now. Tagging just makes it display in the Data View pop up and I was pointing out that the same does happen now with the one marriage event displayed on the Detail page.

I agree it would be great to be able to tag an individual source to a marriage event without first copying that source to the relationship source list. If we could do that, we would not even need the relationship source list and the Couple Relationship could be simplified to not have the separate source list at all but could instead look something like this:

Here I'm showing two "different" couple events each with their own set of tagged sources. I would picture having Tag Sources bring up the individual source lists of both people in the relationship so sources could be tagged from either list or both lists.

This does make the Couple Relationship pop up a funny hybrid of the Details page Other Information section and the Data View pop up but historically marriage information has always had funny quirks as people try to display it either on paper or in a computer program.

____________

As a side comment, discussion about sources requires the clear use of language with proper terms. If you go to a car repair place with the concern that your car won't stop when you press the gas pedal, things won't go well.

Attaching a source = Adding a source to an individual source list or to a couple relationship source list.

Tagging a source = Associating an existing source on a source list with a specific piece of data and causing that source to be displayed against that data in the Data View pop up.

With data in the Vitals section, the source linker attaches the source then, if the proper box is checked, tags the source to selected data.

With data in the Other Information section, currently the source linker can only attach the source. Then the user has to manually tag the source to the desired data.

YvonneCariveau

Thanks, that's a good point BigelowAnna.

It's also hard to do this the other way - if I add the marriage record to the Source for one of the partners in the marriage, then I have to go to the Marriage event and attach it (a process that involves many clicks and being asked to give a reason for attaching) AND then I have to go the other partner and attach (again with several clicks and being asked a reason for attaching).

Ideally, we'd enter a Marriage source on the Marriage event - once, with a reason for attaching it given once and it would just put that Source on the Sources list for both of the people in that marriage.

Just Me Again 22

Hello,

1. would it be possible to show the number of sources there are for a marriage like it does for name/birth etc.
2. Also when adding a marriage source is it possible to add the tag at this stage instead of going back into the orginal marriage entry and then tagging the source
3. when adding a marriage source can the cursor be automatically set to start at the date and not have to click the line before being able to enter data.

Thanks

Julia Szent-Györgyi

Number 1 already exists ...sort of. It's hidden: you have to click on the marriage event -- not the pencil, but the part that turns gray when your cursor is in the area.

This brings up the "view" version of the "Couple Relationship" popup, which has a source counter as well as a "Tag Sources" button/link.

But I agree that that's rather too mysterious, and would prefer if the source counter were right there with the event, below the couple's names, same as it is for conclusions in Vitals and Other.

(But if they do implement this suggestion, I kinda want to take bets on how long before the false memories start showing up, in the form of complaints that FS has stopped tagging marriage sources.)

Áine Ní Donnghaile

The marriage source is connected to the relationship, rather than to the individuals. That's part of the reason it is somewhat buried. I, too, wish it was more visible. And I wonder if the new version of the source linker (visible as an option in the beta platform) may make some changes possible?

Alan E. Brown

@Julia Szent-Györgyi You said "This brings up the "view" version of the "Couple Relationship" popup, which has a source counter as well as a "Tag Sources" button/link."

That's not exactly true. When you click on the big gray area for an event, you are only bringing up the "view" version of that EVENT for the couple relationship. When you are looking at an event on a couple relationship, you see the list of sources tagged for that event (that's the count) and you can tag sources. But this is only for that event, not for the full relationship.

The full Couple Relationship popup can be seen only by clicking the pencil icon. That will show you everything about that relationship: participants, events, facts, sources, notes, and change log. The list of events may contain multiple events. Each of the events has the option to click on the gray area (which will take you to the "view" version of the event, exactly as when you click on the primary event for the relationship back on the person page) or the pencil icon (which takes you to the "edit" version of the event).

On the full Couple Relationship popup, there is a list of sources. That list does not contain a count. It's not clear to me if the original post was talking about this list of attached sources for the relationship, or the list of tagged sources for the particular event.

Julia Szent-Györgyi

@Alan E. Brown, I phrased it like that because all of the popups are labeled identically, as "Couple Relationship".

Alan E. Brown

@Just Me Again 22 Regarding point 2:

Also when adding a marriage source is it possible to add the tag at this stage instead of going back into the original marriage entry and then tagging the source

A significant update to the source linker is underway. I would hope that the new source linker will tag any event that is added to the couple relationship as it attaches the source to the couple relationship. We'll see.

UPDATE: I just tried this on the new source linker on Beta. It didn't add any tags. I provided used the Feedback link on the new source linker to let them know; I hope that there is still time to add that event tagging before it is actually released.

Alan E. Brown

@Just Me Again 22 Regarding point 3:

when adding a marriage source can the cursor be automatically set to start at the date and not have to click the line before being able to enter data.

I think you're referring to adding a marriage event (not a marriage source). In that case, I would certainly agree. It could well be helpful to focus on the first entry field (the date) so that you can start typing immediately. That's analogous to what is done when adding an alternate name, which also has a dropdown for the type, but focuses initially on the first name field so that you can start typing the name immediately.

Just Me Again 22

No, I mean marriage source as you have to click the date when you want to enter in a new source so as you said that you can start typing immediately.

cheers

Angela84282

How did you get those sources there ? I cannot figure out how to do it.

Here's an example :

Catherine Eva Ridenour (1783–1853) • Person • Family Tree • FamilySearch

She has 14 sources on the Sources Tab, 5 of them are related to the marriage. But when I click on the Details Tab, anywhere I click on the couple or on the marriage event (i.e. clicking the box or clicking the edit pencil) or anywhere else, I cannot figure out to link or tag those sources to the marriage.

When you click the edit pencil (example pic below is just an example, not from her page), it only gives you the option to ADD NEW sources, not to link or tag the sources that are already available in FamilySearch / or already attached to her.

If there is a way to do this, will someone please reply and tell me how ?!?!

Gordon Collett

You can only tag sources to marriage events that are in the Couple Relationship pop up:

If you have an indexed marriage source on a person's source page there is a way, rather bothersome, to move that source to the couple relationship source list:

1. Find the source on the source page.
2. Open to view it.
3. Click Review Attachments to enter the Source Linker.
4. Detach the source from the spouse of the focus person.
5. Click compare.
6. Move the marriage information from the left hand section of the screen to the right hand section.
7. Attach the source.
8. Go back to the couple relationship pop up and delete the duplicate marriage information that the Source Linker put there.

You will see that the source is now listed in that pop up so you can now go and tag it to the marriage event.

Angela84282

Thank you so much for responding !!!!

I have detached George from one of the 5 marriage sources from Catherine's source page.

But, I can not figure out what you mean by this or how to do this part ... 6. Move the marriage information from the left hand section of the screen to the right hand section.

By the way, is there a beginner set of instructions anywhere on how to make the most common edits etc for this website ? I have been looking at how others have been done and trying to figure out how to do mine the same way. The help page is basically useless for beginners using this website as far as I have found so far. There's all kinds of cutesy "activities" where I can "discover" things, and there's also tons of "how to fix" things like how to undo an incorrect this-or-that. But I can't find a set of beginner instructions or guidelines. I've already seen sooooo many of what I think are mistakes that I think are happening because folks don't know what to do. Pretty much every person page I've looked at has numerous issues.

Gordon Collett

Most of the time, after temporarily detaching the source, you get the screen shot shown above. The source is only attached to the couple relationship if you click the Add link.

In you example, you must have such a good match between the data in the source and the data in the tree that it is preventing moving that duplicate information.

Another possible route you could try is to click the "Add Source to Source Box" option. I have not tried that but you should then be able to add the source from your source box to the couple relationship box and then be able to tag the source.

Julia Szent-Györgyi

@Angela84282, unfortunately, the couple's sources section is completely separate from their individual sources sections. What's on their individual Sources tabs has no relation to what's on their Couple Relationship popups.

(Heh. I recognize my great-grandparents' marriage in the screenshot.)

Sometimes, Source Linker adds a source citation to the couple section, but I haven't figured out a pattern for when it does and when it doesn't. (Well, other than by following Murphy's Law: if I check the "Add to my Source Box" checkbox so that I can make sure to add it to the couple later, then Source Linker will have put it there already, but if I don't check that box, then inevitably it'll be one of the ones that Source Linker doesn't add to the couple.)

Alan E. Brown

@Julia Szent-Györgyi said: "Sometimes, Source Linker adds a source citation to the couple section, but I haven't figured out a pattern for when it does and when it doesn't."

The Source Linker adds a source to the couple relationship whenever the user adds a marriage event (a marriage or divorce) from the record (left side) to the persons (right side).

This is a bit of black magic, since the Source Linker appears to only be operating on individuals, not a couple relationship. And you may blithely choose not to select the marriage event, since a very similar event already exists, and you don't want to duplicate that data. Or if the exact marriage event already exists, you won't even be given the option to add the event. In either of those cases, you won't have added a marriage event, so the Source Linker won't attach the source to the relationship. Personally, I wish it would always attach the source to the relationship when it's attached to the person (if it's not already attached), but that's not how it works now.

Julia Szent-Györgyi

Sources don't work well enough in Beta to test this properly, but I think "if you transfer the marriage event" may be just one circumstance under which Source Linker adds the source to the couple. I say this because I basically never take up Source Linker on its offered events, because they're either already there, or it takes the index too literally and offers something like a "marriage registration" (to go under Other). And yet, sometimes it adds a source to a couple, and sometimes, it doesn't.

I sort of understand why the couple is separate from its constituent individuals, but why is that section so invisible? Merging invisibly concatenates the couple box, cheerfully duplicating both events and sources, with no provision for telling it not to do that. Source Linker invisibly adds sources (or not). Heck, even clicking the box doesn't fully reveal things -- you have to specifically click the pencil to see other events, or the notes section (or the fact that there is a notes section).

Maile L

Mod note - several discussion on the same topic were merged here