User Created Sources and Source Citations in the Source Box
Hi. There is a question or concern I have about creating sources in the Source Box and then attaching them to particular facts. This is new to me so I hope you folks will be patient.
Here is an example: I created a source ”Archives Municipales Metz” as an umbrella source to cover all facts I obtained from that source (which is a web page from Metz, France). I would want to use that one source to potentially document facts associated with hundreds of individuals. But it asks for the citation details when creating the source itself, that is where the particular fact was found in the source. That means if I cite that for one person that the fact is found on page so and so of the source, it will say the same thing for everyone I have attached that source to, which would not be correct.
Another example would be if I created a source which is a book I had containing pertinent information about a family. I would want to create a source which is the title of that book and details about the book. The citation for individual fact would be the page it was found on. The way it is set up, it seems like I would have to recreate the source for every different fact I cited, as opposed to using the single source and then citing the page when inputting a fact.
It seems to me that when you go to your source box, and select a user created source to attach….besides asking “Reason to Attach Source?” there should be a second box where you input the citation details of where in that source you obtained the information for the particular fact. Otherwise, you have to create a whole separate source for every fact.
Is this something I am not seeing properly, and can someone tell me how to do it right?
Thanks in advance 🙂
Answers
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Sources are set up for individual citations, not vague pointers at entire websites or books. If you think about it, how much would you really need to re-enter between two citations? The title and author, or the name of the archive? You can save those things in a text file to re-use easily at need.
Some people have created ultra-broad "citations" like what you're talking about, and put the particulars in the reason box, but the thing to keep in mind is that citations attached using your Source Box like this are all linked: they're all instances of the same citation, really, except for the reason box. This means that if you make a change to it on a profile's Sources tab, the same change will be made to that citation on every profile that it is attached to.
In my opinion, connected citation-sets are one of the best features of FamilySearch's sourcing setup, but their biggest flaw is that they are not marked in any way: someone looking at just a profile's Sources list cannot tell which (if any) of those citations are linked to other instances. You have to click "View" on a citation to see the "Attached To" list, or rather, the first three names on that list. (The full list is yet another click away, under "Show All".) This means that a well-meaning contributor could come along and move the citation details from the reason box to the actual citation, where they normally belong, and thereby mess up the whole set.
I suggest using sources the way they were intended, for actual citations rather than broad pointers. If there are parts of the citation that recur, save them in a text file and then copy them at need.
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Thank you for your input. You were mistaken, however, that I am talking about making ultra-broad "citations". I am talking about making one source and having a way to then cite it for individual facts without that citation sticking to everyone else you have used that source for. For another example: I would want to create a source (again, this is just an example) "1870 United States Federal Census", and enter information about that source; then attach it various people in my tree and be able to cite for each person where in the 1870 census I found information about them (and have it apply only to them). "1870 United States Federal Census" would be the umbrella I refer to in my OP. The way it is set up, if I had 500 facts supported by the 1870 census, my source box would be filled with 500 instances of the 1870 census. It seemed to me like the "Source Box" would be like a library of sources, not books with each page torn out and shelved separately. If so, it should be called a "Source Citation Box". If you go to a library and use the card index to find a book, it does not have a separate card for every page in the book. What then would be the use of having a source "box"? Why not just be allowed to create a source citation attached to an individual, and if you want to look at it again or edit it, just go back to that person? Family Tree Maker is the software I have used mostly. There, you create and manage sources. There is nothing where you create and manage a source where it asks for information about a particular fact supported by that source. It is when you enter a fact in a person's profile, and then attach a particular source to support it, that you get a dialogue box asking where in that source you found the particular information associated with that fact. When you do that, it does not alter any other instances in the tree where you have used that source. The citation stands alone. The way it is set up in FS, my source box would be filled with thousands of sources, which would be for each instance I cited a particular source. That seems rather inefficient to me. I actually think the only work abound is what you said others do....enter the particulars in the Reason box. 🙂🙂🙂🙂
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PS Except like you said, I would not want a well-meaning person to move it from Reason to the citation and mess everything else up. So probably that is not a good work around after all. In my extremely humble opinion, it would be great if they removed the citation input box from the source creation form, and then move it as an additional input box along with Reason to Attach when you attach the source to an individual/fact. That way, the Source Box does not get clogged with thousands of items, and a well-meaning person can not do what you said they might do. It would clean that up and make the user-created Source Box more efficient.🙂🙂
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You're thinking of the Source Box as a card catalog. It isn't. It's a shoebox full of slips of paper where you wrote down where you found something. And yes, it really should be called your Citations Box. (Similarly, it should be a profile's Citations tab. This is not the only word that FamilySearch uses less-than-precisely, nor is FamilySearch the only site that uses "Source" where it means "Citation of a Source".)
I think Ancestry's sourcing setup is basically exactly what you envision. I find it completely impossible to use. To create a new source (the generalized "whole book/website" type), it has fields for all sorts of things that my usual sources simply do not have (such as an author or publisher), and no fields for the sorts of things they do have (such as a film number and/or breadcrumb trail/waypoints). If I want to cite a marriage register for the bride and groom and their parents, then I have to re-enter the transcription and all of the other details individually, six separate times, and if I notice a typo on the sixth one, then I have to go back and make that correction five more times. For a particularly informative funeral notice, it's even worse, with dozens of family members that need the source individually entered. Mostly, I just don't. It's tedious beyond words and just not worth the effort.
On FS, you can create a disconnected instance of a citation by using "Copy". This adds the words "Copy of" at the beginning of the title, but you're free to edit that out. I don't have any suggestions for organizing your Source Box to handle a group of such copies, but I'm sure that with the (relatively-new) organizational features of your box, something can be done.
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I don't use Ancestry to create or edit. I use Family Tree Maker. I guess everyone has their own preferences. I find the FS system of entering sources and source citations unwieldy and inefficient. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question.
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@Christopher Grigg, similarly to the reason box method, this is the way I deal with the source box when I want to customized the source Title to an individual PID and not to all who have this source attached. I am usually dealing with just a few names per source for a self-created source box entry.
I make a Copy of the Source and Edit the copy for my custom source title. Then for the next name I just Edit the previous Copy, so I only end up with two versions of the source in my source box. The original and a copy.
To do that, I click on the source in the source box, then “Copy”, then Edit the title, then Save. That edited source copy pops up to the top of the Source box list. Then Attach. Now that source is unique to that PID only.
Oh, rereading, Julia Szent-Gyorgyi’s post I see she already suggested the Source Copy method. Nap time.
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Thank you I will give that a try!
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