Filter for ordinances
When we are filtering our Temple Reservations, I am requesting an improvement.
For example, when I filter to find Initiatories to be done, I select Filter By Ordinance, then Initiatory. I only want to find any names that are ready for Initiatory. But the filter will find names that still need the Baptism and Confirmation done. That defeats the purpose of the Initiatory filter (as far as I'm concerned).
Just like if I want to find names to be Sealing to Parents, and that is the only filter I select, it will still find names that need Baptism, Confirmation, Initiatory and Endowments needed. I only want to find names that are ready to be sealed. For example, if I want to find infants that only need the Sealing to Parents done, the filter can't find them without sorting through thousands of other names I have submitted that need all their other work done too.
Can the filter please be programmed to select the names that are ready for the ordinance I have it filtered by? We all know there is an order the ordinances need to be done in. It would be great if the filter could support that order.
Comments
-
I am finding the same challenge. I filter for "perform next" and "sealing to parents"... a list comes up with individuals who have sealing to parents as the next ordinance... the problem is the parents are not yet sealed together and so the person cannot be sealed to them. The filter is not robust enough to truly isolate an ordinance that can be performed in order because it is not taking into consideration all the ordinances that need to be completed by all relations before the filtered ordinance can be performed. Currently, after I filter for "perform next" and "sealing to parents" I have to double check that the parents actually have their necessary ordinances complete in order for the child to be sealed to them. It is time consuming and confusing. Please research to find a way to improve the filter for an accurate isolation of actual ordinance that can be performed. Thank you
1 -
For example, when I filter to find Initiatories to be done, I select Filter By Ordinance, then Initiatory. I only want to find any names that are ready for Initiatory. But the filter will find names that still need the Baptism and Confirmation done. That defeats the purpose of the Initiatory filter (as far as I'm concerned).
To accomplish what you want to see, such as Initiatory only those for whom B/C are completed, you just have to set the Perform Next button. That changes the selection from everyone needing to complete initiatory to those who need to complete it next.
The sealing of a child to parents filters will likely never be changed because we are to complete all individual ordinances for those we are authorized to do the work for. This includes the spouses of our aunts, uncles, and cousins of various sorts. But we are not to submit work for the parents of those spouses since we are not related to them. So Perform Next will probably always give us everyone whose B/C/I/E are completed without regard to the parents ordinance status.
It would be nice if the sealing of couples' filter checked the ordinance status of the individual ordinances of the couple but current policy as stated in the Help Center article https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances is that as individuals we are now allowed to follow the same policy that the temples did for decades under the record extraction program in which extracted marriage records were used to perform sealings for couples without ever doing any preceding ordinances.
1 -
Can I suggest that the Family History Department and the Temple Department get together and talk this issue through to a solution. I'm retired Church IT and I know that with a little diplomacy, we can fix this.
As a patron, I just want to do what's right. I don't have really strong feelings as to whether I do ordinances in their natural sequential order or not. But what is frustrating is to read Family History Policy stating explicitly that, it's okay to do ordinances out of order and then to go to the Temple, and have the Ordinance Workers tell me "Oh we can't do that one until the (fill in the blank) ordinance has been completed."
Personally, the Lord said 'My house is a house of order', so I'm inclined to agree with the Temples a little and suggest we fix the filter. But honestly, if the Lord doesn't mind us doing the ordinances out of order, I'm more than happy to comply.
What we don't need, especially in the Temple, is that confusion and conflict. We can surely fix this.
Thanks you all. I know what you're going through and I love you all. I'll pray for your success whatever that may be.
1 -
This is kind of strange. Of course the five individual ordinances on a card have to be completed and dates filled in in order, that is B/C/I/E/SP. But I have never had any temple ever take that child's card needing just sealing to parents and check on the parent's ordinance status or had a stack of couple sealing cards and had the temple go through each one to see if the couple's individual ordinances were done.
Why are some temples apparently checking every sealing card like this while all the one's I'm familiar with never do and the policy is not to?
1 -
April 17, 2023 re: Ordinances Ready?
Temple Ordinance submission policy states:
"Temple ordinances should be done in this order: Baptism and confirmation; Priesthood ordination for males and initiatory ordinances; Endowment; Sealings. (The marriage sealing should be done after both the husband and the wife have received the endowment. Children may be sealed to parents after the parents have been sealed to each other."
HOWEVER, the Ordinances Ready subroutine in Family Search ignores this policy when a user selects e.g. Spouse Sealings -- it will select spouses for sealing submission who have NOT had their Baptism, Confirmation, Initiatory and Endowment work done. Same with the Children Sealings filter.
The result is that patrons print off Spouse and Children Sealing cards and take them to be done without checking if the that B, C, I, E ordinances have been done; or does it not matter?
0 -
When logged into Family Search, clicking “Temple”, followed by “My Reservations”, I'm presented with a list of all my reserved ordinances. The filtering functionality is a bit problematic. For example, if I plan to perform Sealings and want to print off names needing the sealing ordinance performed, I intuitively select the filters to turn on “Sealing to Parents” and “Sealing to Spouse” and turn off the filters for all other ordinances. In theory, this should bring up only names that are ready for their Sealing ordinance to be performed. Instead, I end up with a list of people that, while needing a sealing, may not even have their Baptism performed. I’ve had a problem in the past showing up to the temple with names to seal only to discovered that those individuals are not eligible because their Baptisms haven’t been performed.
Instead of utilizing filters to help me, I have to manually look over all the names in “My Reservation” to ensure I’m only printing names who are truly ready--have been baptized, endowed, etc.. This makes the filters rather worthless. I’d suggest that the filter should only show the names of those ready for the ordinance being filtered on. For example, if I filter on “Endowment”, only names who have had their Initiatory performed should appear. If I select Initiatory, then only names of those Baptized should appear. This would make the filters more helpful and actually reduce errors by names being brought that aren't eligible.
0 -
In order to get names that are ready for the one ordinance you select, you need to use the Perform Next filter in the upper section. This changes the filter for the ordinances from a show all view to a show some view.
The one exception is for sealing to spouse since the program, and current church policy, does not require any previous ordinances to be completed first. Therefor Sealing to Spouse will give you the same names whether the Perform Next filter is on or off. At this point you still need to check each of those if you desire to seal a couple only after all their individual ordinances are completed.
0 -
It would be nice if "perform next" actually pulled up ordinances that were READY to perform next. Currently, it pulls up UNDONE ordinances, regardless if the earlier ordinances have been completed. Please see my screenshot. This is a very common, very annoying occurrence, especially if I forget to double-check every single name before I print (and then discover I can't do the ordinances after all, but can't reshare with the temple).
Please consider changing the programming for this filter.
Thanks,
Martha Rasmussen
0 -
The programming is correct and completely consistent with the actual policies about what ordinances may be performed. It appears that you are assuming that the SS ordinance may not be performed yet, because the E ordinance is not yet complete. That is a common misunderstanding. Since the SS ordinance may be performed, and your filter includes "Perform Next" and "Sealing to Spouse", it is correct that this particular ordinance is included in the filtered results.
See this help article for details (must be signed in to FamilySearch with a membership-linked account to view): https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances
1 -
There is an issue with the names that are found when you select "sealing to spouse" in in the Temple Reservations"list (this also happens when selecting sealing to spouse in Ordinance Ready).
When I use the filter in Temple Reservations and select "perform next" and "sealing to spouse"," the names produced include couples where only one of the spouses has all the work done but the other spouse does not have all the work done. It seems the filter only looks for completed work for one of the spouses. It was my understanding that we need to have all the prior work completed before the performing sealings. I have to go into each name produced and look at the ordinances completed before I can select that name for sealing to spouse.
It is particulary frustrating in Ordinance Ready, because when the names come up in Ordinance Ready and only one spouse has the work completely done, I am not able to get the compute to search for other couples that have both spouses with work completed so I can't get a list of names to use from Ordinance Ready.
Please see if there is something to be done so the names produced with these searches are really ready for the ordinances to be done.
0 -
Current temple policy as shown in various Help Center articles you can search for (such as: https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances ) is that it is perfectly fine to go ahead and complete those sealings. The individual ordinances for each of the couple do not need to be completed first. The sealing will not be effective until the other ordinances are done but will be fully valid when they are.
This has been the policy for decades with extraction records and is now the policy for patron submitted records.
The Perform Next filter is functioning properly according to this current policy.
2 -
On the "My Reservations" page a user may sort by ordinances. However, if you choose say "Sealing-to-parents" as the only ordinance selected, you are shown ALL the people who need the SP ordinance, even if they are not ready to receive that ordinance.
My suggestion is to either change the filter or add a new filter for "next ordinance needed." This would show only the ordinance selected and only show if it is ready and not "waiting" for another prerequisite ordinance.
Reason: If a person has 300 ordinances on their list and they want to go to the temple and do Endowments, they want to quickly find those who have already received the Initiatory, and not everyone needing B, C, I, first.
Thank you for your consideration.
0 -
That's a great idea. It's such a great idea that it's already been implemented! Choose the "Perform Next" filter (up in the top "View" section) in addition to the ordinance filter, and it will do exactly what you are asking for.
1 -
Improve Filters for sealing to spouse
When on my reservations page I use the filters "perform Next" "date reserved" and "sealing to spouse." The results come back with a list of sealings to spouse but they are giving me names of ancestors who do not currently have initiatory or endowments done yet. I want names of ancestors who have these ordinances done and are ready for sealings. Please advise how to achieve this. It works when doing it for sealing to parents but it does not work on sealing to spouse.
0 -
The filters work correctly according to the policies given by the Temple Department. Sealing to spouse can be done before individual ordinances. See https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances
This has been the policy for decades. If you have a different preference, you'll need to examine individual persons and make your own choices about which ordinances to perform next.
0 -
Good Morning,
I received a message from Family Search yesterday informing me that I had a name for the temple, George Ernest Suave - KCJ5-M55. Looking in Family Search it appears that he needs to be sealed to his spouse but his wife has not had any of her ordinance work completed. Can I go ahead and complete the sealing to spouse or do I need to wait for his wife's ordinances to be completed first?
0 -
28.2
Performing Temple Ordinances for Deceased Persons
The following sections explain the ordinances that are performed by proxy for deceased persons in temples. When performing proxy ordinances, a member may act as proxy only for a deceased person who is the same birth sex as the member.
Temple ordinances for the deceased are generally performed in the following order:
- Baptism
- Confirmation
- Melchizedek Priesthood ordination (for men)
- Initiatory
- Endowment
- Sealings
If ordinances for the deceased are completed out of sequence, they do not need to be performed again. They become effective when the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
0 -
The notification I received.
You've Received a name for the temple!
My great-grandaunt
Female 1863–1948 L78P-3ZX
Her ordinances are complete, and *she's* ready to be sealed to her husband.
However, his individual ordinances have not been completed.
We are strongly encouraged to do ordinances in order. So, she is "ready," but he isn't. I'll wait, but it would help if the notifications didn't say she is ready when her husband isn't.
0 -
Actually, the Sealing to Spouse ordinance is ready to be performed. See above.
1 -
I thought I already submitted this concern, but I appear to be asking to submit it again.
When I go in to My Reservations, to print some FOR cards for upcoming temple visits I find what appears to me to be an inconvenient difficulty. Having reserved all the Endowment ordinances permitted for my (Payson Utah) temple (8), I decided to reserve a few Sealing sessions, just to round out my work for this week and next. Without using any filters except for 'by ordinance', I greyed out (unselected) the baptism & confirmation, initiatory, and endowment buttons. I proceeded to check/select-for-printing the male ordinances until I was stopped by the maximum of 50. Then I selected, Print. I was informed that not only did I have persons needing sealings, but also many still needing endowments. In fact, of the 50 names I had selected, I had only 5 sealing cards (all for couples) which I could print. 45 out of the 50 were what I would call falsely reported to me as available ordinances per this filter. Inspecting my pages of reservations more closely, I saw that when I had checked off names, looking past those who reported ordinances undone except for sealings, I had checked many in error because the status of the endowment ordinance was not reported to me, at all. In other words, in some cases My Reservations (without filters) sometimes reported B, C, I, E, SP and sometimes it reported only B, C, I, SP. In this latter alternative, the greyed reporting of baptism, Confirmation, and Initiatory (reflecting that they were completed), the omission of reporting the Endowment status, and the dark reporting of the Sealing, led me to believe that the Sealing was ready to print. But it was not ready, because when I click on an individual name on the My Reservations page, the pop-up box THEN informs me that the Endowment has not been done. This means I believe, HERE'S THE POINT, the My Reservations Page is inconsistent with the detail pages for some (not all) individuals. To give a specific example: Adam Miller LRQP-YHC omits the "E" (which is an ordinance undone), while Staley Snell 9JLM-MFZ correctly reports the "E" and undone (but the card has been printed), Francis Walter Steiner LTTT-4P3 reports BCIE completed and SP printed, and John Cummans G2MK-SBH fails to report BCI but does report E&Sp both as not printed. It may be, as I have heard, that consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, and I have such. But sometimes displaying a given ordinance and sometimes not, sometimes when they are done, and sometimes not, is an inconsistency I believe matters when it comes to using the filters. When I select filters for Sealings, having unchecked the filters for BCI&E, I thought I'd get ONLY Sealings which were ready to be performed - apparently not. When I select ALL (no filters on ordinances), I thought I'd see all the information necessary for me to pick out the people needing and ready for Sealings, but I don't, because not all the information is there for all the people on my reservation list. I spoke with one of my Ward Consultants and we don't see any way for me to make a search yielding the information I wish, with which to print cards, short of using the ALL list, selecting the ordinance filter for the ordinance I wish to perform, and then going down the multiple pages inspecting omissions in ordinances reported and clicking on the names one at a time before checking them to see if the omitted ordinances have been performed or not. I state it this way because I have the same experiences going through looking for Endowments (reporting of the Initiatory status may be omitted) as I do for Sealings. This is a pain I have had for some time in generating ordinance cards, not a new problem I've just encountered. Not an overwhelming pain, but one I think the software could eliminate if the ALL option in My Reservations would just display not only all my reserved people, but all their ordinances. There are, of course, fancier options to make it easier for patrons, but I'm not asking for anything fancy, I believe. I really like your filters. I hope I have been sufficiently clear, and this might hit your bug list. Thanks.
0
