Posting Images from Subscription Sites

Robert Seal_1

Is it acceptable/permissible to post images from a subscription genealogical site to one of the FamilySearch community sites to request a translation or should the requestor only post the link to the image and wait for a response from a community member who also has a subscription to that same paid site?

Áine Ní Donnghaile

It is a violation of the Terms of Service of most sites to post an image from behind that paywall. A link is considered acceptable.

If the site is Ancestry, there is a "share" option that allows you to post a link that anyone can view. No subscription required for someone to view.

The little bent arrow will give you the "share" URL.

Dennis J Yancey

it depends if the image is "public domain"

most sites restrict reposting of 'their content"

but "their content" in most cases is stuff they are the authors of -- creators of - stuff which they have a copy right of.

census schedules for example are creations of the US government -- and are in the public domain. a scan of a public domain item - is STILL in the public domain.

someone's scan of a 19th century document -- would also be in the public domain

whether a copy has been posted on Ancestry or not by some user - if its in the public domain - its in the public domain - and neither ancestry nor familysearch can claim copyright just because its posted on their site. Not at any time did the fact that an item was posted to their site - give them some sort of copyright or limitation of use priviledge if it was originally in the public domain to begin with.

Dennis J Yancey

I also just chatted with Ancestry.com support

and they themselves also said -- if an item is "public domain" then we are free to repost or do as we wish with the downloads.

and they even went so far as to say if there is a "download option" in most cases that means its "public domain".

This is a subject area that many people get confused about ( which is totally expected -- the way most companies write their "terms of use" so confusingly (among them FamilySearch themselves has very confusing wording on terms of use on this subject)

Restrictions on Terms of Use -- applies to the content that any of these companies have actually created.

But so much of what FS and Ancestry.com allows people to download is public domain to begin with- and was NOT created by them - thus the terms of use dont apply to those items

also some people think just because they own something (such as a photo or family document) that such gives them copyright, Ownership does NOT grant copyright. and a photo/scan of a public domain item is still in the public domain. so whether Ancestry scanned it - or a private citizen scanned it -- it it was public domain to begin with then the scan is also public domain.

Dennis J Yancey

see these links:

https://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/copyright.htm

In general the following are in the public domain

1) bare facts cannot be copyrighted and are in the public domain

2) anything published before 1923 -- in the public domain

3) Published by the US and most State governments - most all government documents (including US census records) are in the public domain

4) Raw genealogical data (facts) cannot be copyrighted

5) reproductions of public domain items -- are also in the public domain (recent scans of an old photo etc.)

Robert Seal_1

Thank you very much, @Áine Ní Donnghaile.

Robert Seal_1

Thanks, Dennis. This additional information on the concept of public domain in interesting and helpful.

Dennis J Yancey

In short a person/company can only copyright an item that they themselves have created and an item that truly is original and not just a reproduction of something that already existed.

Áine Ní Donnghaile

The Terms of Service (TOS) of the website hosting the record take precedence over any posssible public domain.

Dennis J Yancey

they can -- but most companies including FamilySearch and Ancestry do NOT apply their terms of use to items they did not create. I have contacted BOTH FamilySearch and Ancestry directly and they both agree - items that they didnt create and that they dont have copyright over are not covered by the "CONTENT" that is referred to in their terms of use restriction. Ancestry explicitly told me -- "if its in the public domain - you are free to repost". and they even said if you can download it from one of our collections -- in most cases that is an indication of public domain. FamilySearch has similar policies.