Insistent user creating unsupported false relationship. Help!!
This is in regards to Ralph Shelton Sr. at MCTX-NFR. There is a user who continues to create a relationship between Ralph and parents John Shelton/Chilton and Jane at GSH1-25C. When she started at the beginning of June, myself and 2 other long-term collaborators on Ralph attempted to collaborate with her and ask her for sources/support so we could investigate and work together. Despite best efforts, all attempts failed and she turned hostile. Never provided real support (only 2 sources - one was a FAG entry now removed with manager recognized was a mess and has updated and it was never a support anyway, and second is a website still there which doesn't support her assertion anyway and the website owner has personally told me there are definitely errors but health issues prevent her from updating further). We have tried EVERY suggestion in every help article or from responses we have received from support, or any ideas we have. Nothing is working. Have also reported her for abuse when she started using offensive language in messages and making derogatory comments about me personally, but it was denied. Primary sources are clear that Ralph was imported to Virginia and therefore wouldn't have been born to parents already in Virginia, further the will connected to the supposed parent John doesn't name a son Ralph. Evidence to real researchers is clear. We are at our wits end and don't know next steps to manage the situation. It has been a "she attached with no proof and we detach with explanations/proof" situation over and over. Need intervention/help.
Can provide many more details if needed, though the root of the problem won't change with more details. Help!
Answers
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@Kim Moore Good question. I hate it when that happens.
On my Bruce line everyone wants to be related, but not everyone is.
- Finally I researched the erroneous family in detail, made a pdf, put it as a source and raised up to the top of the sources.
I titled it: Why Bruce 1819 is not related to the Bruce/McMahans.
This seemed to have stopped the problem. You could also perhaps copy and paste your research to a message to your inconvenient person.
2.Another thing I have done is to research their people and make a family tree separate from mine, with sources. Then I messaged them with the PID number of their central person and I didn't hear from them again.
It's difficult for sure.
Good luck.
Anitra :)
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Thank you so much for your response Anitra. We have tried everything you have suggested and so much more. At this point we are dealing with someone completely unreasonable. What I really need is for family search support to actually intervene. Previously their only solution was to "just keep changing back what she changes". That could go on for eternity. At this point today she has now gotten to the point of calling us "nitwits" and similar in her comments and removing full detailed and sourced life sketches in favor of putting one sentence comments such as "there is no evidence....", when there is absolutely evidence and she just doesn't understand it. Submitted a second abuse claim today after she started calling names again, but family search seems so hesitant to take action. REALLY NEED a family search missionary or agent to help here and caution/block her.
Anyone have any other suggestions whatsoever or any ways you were successful in getting support to actually intervene?
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FamilySearch's role in these matters (in relation to policing, arbitrating, etc.) has long been a matter of discussion.
My own belief is that they should stand back as far as possible in letting users resolve their own disputes. However, there do need to be occasions (and probably resources allocated to this) when matters really do get out of hand.
As with this forum, Family Tree needs a strict code of conduct, whereby (as with this forum) sanctions can be activated against those not working in harmony with their fellow users. Too often we hear that reporting certain incidents (as in this example) does not lead to any help from FamilySearch, who often seem to just respond with a, "Sorry, but this does not constitute abuse" conclusion.
If it were known there would be, say, only read-only access (or even a complete ban) for those who refuse to accept the ethos of the Family Tree project, perhaps many would feel far less inclined to continue with such appalling behaviour.
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Thank you Paul W. I likewise have eventually been able to resolve every dispute (save 1 if I remember correctly) without support's help over the 10 years of this platform. This is by far the worst situation and appears unresolvable without intervention. Read-only access seems very reasonable for users who continue to violate egregiously.
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I have seen far worse conflicts. Given that there are 44 watchers now on MCTX-NFR, my advice would be you all form a Family Group and coordinate a surname study. Guild of One Name Studies has a lot of resources to support such a study.
I did a very cursory search of Shelton records from Virginia between 1650 and 1750. There are only about 120 records, quite a few not yet attached to the tree. So that's an obvious constructive step any of you could take. Search with and without specifying British Colonial America, and attach all the records.
Are there spelling variants of Shelton?
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Also look at the currently attached grandparents. The number of dismissed hints (currently 10) on the putative grandfather James Stephen Shelton should give anyone pause:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/research-help/LZNN-13X
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Hello @Kim Moore, I've been looking at your tree from MCTX-NFR.
There are a lot of sources for him and parents?.
Do you have this one? Is this your Ralph Shelton. MCTX-NFR?
Some information from this source:
NameRalph SheltonBirth Date1685
Birth PlaceMiddlesex, Virginia
Death Date1733Death PlaceMiddlesex, Virginia
SAR Membership90410
RoleAncestorApplication Date19 Oct 1963
FatherPeter Shelton
MotherSusannah Jackson
SpouseMary Crispen
ChildrenRalph Shelton
Interested.
Anitra
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@dontiknowyou - thank you for your responses, I will have to take some time to think about/work on your suggestions. For now, can you tell me how you identify how many watchers there are? And is it possible to determine who they are? Additional research is always good, but this woman seems not to care about/understand even the research presented, which still leave us with our problem.
@Anitra Whittle - yes we are very aware of every suggested parent, especially that one since it is usually the one people try to attach. So many of the SAR and DAR applications can't be relied on because they often previously accepted genealogies that weren't actually supported by sources, with this being one example. The book by Mildred Campbell Whitaker listed as the source has been proven to have SO many errors - it has done way more harm than good (and it never even listed its sources so I don't know why SAR accepted a book that anyone could write anything they wanted to in). If you go to the change log for Ralph and filter to find the the ACTUAL life sketch that is usually there (I'm not going to restore it until after the abuse claim is resolved), you can see all the reasons why it has been determined that Peter is definitely not Ralph's father (DNA, wills, birth records, etc.). But thanks for your suggestion!
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Who are the correct parents of your Ralph Shelton Sr. MCTX-NFR.
I teach Research Tactics at a Family History Center. I'm intrigued by your problem.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Best wishes,
Anitra
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@Anitra Whittle We don't think the correct parents of Ralph Shelton Sr. can be identified at this time. If you go look at the life sketch I've referred to as well as the attached sources, pay note to the importation document where Ralph was imported to Virginia by Thomas Merriwhether. You can see the comments about "maybe-he-was-maybe-he-wasnt" a technical indentured servant according to how the system worked then. If he was imported to Virginia, reason dictates that he wasn't born to parents in Virginia. Thomas also left Ralph some land in his will, which wasn't uncommon if they had a relationship of some sort (whether it was possible in-law family as some have suspected or just the indentured servant/importation relationship). Really the like sketch should lay out all we know. Our best guess is that he was imported from England, but despite much searching no documents have been located that give any indication of his parentage in any way, and while I'm a complete newbie at DNA, my understanding is that nothing with DNA has helped us identify anything before this Ralph.
In regards to what we know about other Sheltons (possibly spelled Chilton in for some immigrants)
-there is definitely a John CHILTON married to a Jane and he has a November 1706 Westmoreland will. He is the suspected immigrant of that line and he/his family was the one who built/owned the Currioman estate you may see references to. There is absolutely no Ralph in that will. Ralph was alive then and in Virginia, having just been recently imported in 1702.
-There is a John Shelton (d 1725) who was of the Rural Plains estate, and a solid government report on that family can be found here. http://npshistory.com/publications/rich/hsr-shelton-house.pdf. Off the top of my head I think that John was married to Elizabeth, and house went next to son John Shelton (d 1769) married to Eleanor Parks.
-the James Shelton married to Mary Bathurst boggles me - have only spent a small amount of time looking at them because too often I spent time researching what is NOT my line (though sometimes I have to do it to eliminate all possibilities). But initial research told me there is definitely nothing clear.
-I think there are other John Sheltons, and I know I have made notes on them, I just have to go dive back in deep to list more and why we have eliminated them
I am suggesting that anything connected to Ralph as parentage as it is right now, and anything beyond that is definitely a set of "hot mess" records where I am seeing tons of errors.
If you can help in ANY WAY to provide research or reasoning to guide us through this then I will be forever indebted to you! One of our biggest challenges is that the lady who is causing the problem hasn't ever provided a real source. She says that some of our sources aren't real proof, yet provides nothing to support her assertion. If you want to attempt to reach out to mediate the situation as a neutral third party, again I would be indebted to you.
Kim
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Hello @Kim Moore
I saw the two Ralphs'. I'll take a look.
I saw the sources that were mix muddled. I will fuss with this. I love doing this. :)
I'll get back to you. I appears that it will take some time.
Enjoy.
Anitra
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Thanks @Anitra Whittle. Family search apparently is taking some unknown action against the user for the name-calling, etc. statements (which FS agents have now removed), so that is a step in the right direction. I think we have a pretty good handle on the two different Ralphs, and all the sources at "my Ralph" MCTX-NFR should be solid, but anything else you can help do to figure out the other stuff I have mentioned is excellent. I will patiently await anything you find - we all know in the researching business it definitely takes some time!
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Hi, Kim!
Let me add for the discussion that there is a YDNA study that shows that the father/son relationship this user insists on repeatedly attaching cannot be valid. However, in a private message the user rejected that reasoning, saying that YDNA constantly changes (it doesn’t) so the study “doesn’t prove anything” (it does) and that I could “look it up on the internet.” The user has since muted me in messaging. I mention this just to illustrate for this group what it’s been like dealing with that person.
For anyone who’s interested, the study demonstrated that there is no connection between the Shelton and Chilton lines, and that the Ralph Shelton line is unrelated to the John Shelton line.
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For some reason Community is not notifying me of followup comments. @Kim Moore :
For now, can you tell me how you identify how many watchers there are? And is it possible to determine who they are?
Yes, and yes.
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@dontiknowyou Thanks. I hadn't seen that because my filter options on my follow list were set such that it didn't show my screen the same as above. Got it now.
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The mobile app has none of these features.
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