Issue with the Worlds Family Tree
Hello Community,
I'm hoping someone can help with my issue.
I have an ancestor Edward B. Sizemore LD57-WM6, His parents are George Sizemore and Annie Elizabeth Hart GS28-MM7. This line is changed ALL the time children added and removed daily. I have reached out to several individuals personally and proven my case multiple times that they are dealing with different families, but it is changed almost daily. The main problem is there is an Edward Sizemore LBFC-223 whose parents are George All Sizemore LB5Q-3CH and Agnes Shephard LRH8-W1M. This George All Sizemore is a completely different George then my Edward B. Sizemore's father. However, he is ALWAYS being combined. The name George Sizemore can be created because his dates are similar to George All Sizemore the regular George has the name All added to him.
In August of 2021 a person with the username "US Historian" started removing several individuals stating there was not any governmental source any changes would be reported. I reached out to this person and explained I was attaching records. here is how our conversation went.
Me- Aug 30, 2001: please do not remove parents of Edward B. Sizemore LD57-WM6. I can prove with direct and indirect evidence he is the son of George Sizemore and Anna Hart. In addition, there is an ECA from a great great grandchild of George's who claims Anna's name is Aruna only this person make this claim. We do not claim George ALL Sizemore, someone keeps adding it we only claim George Sizemore and Annie Hart. and NO our George is not the same as George ALL Sizemore. So please provide hard evidence George All Sizemore even existed not published histories nor remembrance headstones created years later.
US Historian- Aug 31, 2021: Cindy, I will remove the parents if they don’t have proper sources. George “All” Sizemore is sourced at the Breathitt County Library and does have pictures of the old original Tombstone that has the same name on it. We don’t even have documents to prove “Annie Hart”, No death certificates or birth certificates to prove if she even existed. I will not have false information on this site, so go somewhere else if you want to spread false information or have proper documentation. Sincerely
Me- Aug 31, 2021:
The problem is not Anna Hart, the problem is George ALL. No one has real documentation to him besides a death record of Edward Sizemore in 1855 saying George and Aggy are his parents. No one is able to tell who the informant was of this information. In addition, at no time has anyone provided a primary record with either first or secondary information for this George All Sizemore. What they have done is attached him to the wrong George Sizemore and the wrong documents. They have tons of miss leading incorrect information because of individuals just attaching.
Now originally the database the name was George Sizemore he was shown as united with Annie Hart. this was prior to individuals changing it to George All Sizemore and adding Aggie Shepherd.
As you need records showing relation here is a list of ECA's Eastern Cherokee Applications identify George Sizemore and Annie Hart Eastern Cherokee Applications (here after called ECA), Lyda Rose (ECA 10246), John Sizemore (ECA 9086), Elizabeth Rose (ECA 12452), Jane Clifton nee Baldwin (ECA 15166), Sarah Altzier (ECA 40025), W. T. [William Tildon] Sizemore and Sarah Ware (ECA 12940), Z. T. [Zachariah Taylor] Sizemore (ECA 12455 & 41553), Andrew J. Sizemore (ECA 34424), Nancy Catherine Scites (ECA 13637), Eva May Akers (ECA 14454), Annie Bailey (ECA 10488), W.H.H. Cook (ECA 10139), Nancy Jane Perdew Farley (ECA 10136), Virginia Clevenger (ECA 12277), Leroy Brinegar (ECA 13008), Mary Perdew (ECA 9099), The listed ECA’s along with multiple other ECA’s help to confirm the actual children on Edward B. “Ned: Sizemore, Junior and his wife Anna Baldwin. In addition, these ECA’s confirm that Edward’s parents were identified as George Sizemore and Annie Hart. In the case of these ECA's the individuals were old enough to remember their grandparents many times being in their late teens to early 30s when their grandfather passed. They also lived around their grandparents as can be proven by census and tax records. Helping to solidify their knowledge of the data they share.
In addition, there are multiple records where George Sizemore sells land to various relations of Annie Hart, this is all taking place while George All Sizemore is supposedly living in Kentucky. BTW there is tax records showing a George Sizemore in Clay county, Kentucky however, because there is no age listed can one be positive he is George All Sizemore. Especially because there is another George Sizemore in the same area during the same time frame that no one mentions. This George Sizemore appears to have been born in about 1776.
US Historian-Do you have the ECA document on hand? This is the first I heard of it. A screenshot would be nice to add to the site so others won’t be confused. Their is so much information from different families you don’t know what to believe. I been trying to find a census record to prove who was in the family and who was not.
I don’t have any family ties to this family, but I have been assigned to look in on it. Any more information would be appreciated. I will add everything back until I find sources to prove otherwise.
Me: I do have copies of the folders! I have copied several of them. I probably have close to 100 to be honest. Each folder has between 5 and 100 pages. Every one of them can be viewed at Fold3.com I honestly get them to pull up easy by typing in Z T Sizemore (Z.T. was my direct line ancestor's brother). Then clicking on the first record that comes up this will bring me to all the applications I can go through each one by surname.
To me these are more valuable then a census as with a census I can not be positive who provided the information. in the case of each ECA the person was providing personal information about themselves, their spouse, their children, their parents, their siblings, their aunts and uncles, and their grandparents. some times they provided their great grandparents and great great grandparents.
In my case I knew the individuals who were in my FAN club. "Friends/Family, Associates and Neighbors"
In my case the names were Baldwin, Blevins, Hart, Osborn, Stamper, Pennington, Cook, Brinegar, Rose, etc. My George Sizemore had siblings that married into some of these families in each case their descendants pretty much made the same claim as my George Sizemore's descendants. because there are so many ECA's from individuals who lived all over who make the same claim tells me it is my George Sizemore.
When completing my observation I felt I needed to have ECA's from individuals who lived during the time of the major events being asked. This was 1836 and 1851. I typically copied the ones where people were born in the 1820s thru the 1840s. If there was a certain note in one that I found of interest I may have copied it as well. I pretty much did this same thing for all the various Sizemore groups. Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Halifax Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia,
I also have copies of files from 1888 to 1896. It is in these that the true story is told, but honestly I have not located anyone from the Kentucky group in these earlier files.
If you provide your email I will send you a few of the pages so you can see what the records are like
I have wanted to upload files and typically do but people keep changing them and say they are George All Sizemore and Agnes Shepherd
3:24 PM
George All Sizemore and Agnes Shepherd are not my group but I feel there is some kind of connection. I'm not so sure George All Sizemore wasn't possibly older maybe closer to the 1730s/1740s.
I also have a problem because people will call Edward Ned Sizemore (the full blooded Cherokee) as George Edward Sizemore. I have actually seen individuals who are great great great grandchildren or further away from my George Sizemore refer to him as George Edward. I believe this happened possibly because of reciting the names of the ancestors as his son was Edward.
after my total explanation and that I was in the process if attaching sources. George was detached!! Basically, I could not restore him no matter what I tried. I called Salt Lake and spoke to one of the helpers. He was able to see that I had followed all procedures etc. I was at a loss. I was informed to create a new person which I did. Then a few days later someone seen George Sizemore and the dates and the name and added All, the same day he was merged with George All Sizemore again. What I don't understand is how I was stopped when in fact I was the one with the sources. Now my sources are added to the wrong George. I have more sources to prove the difference but who do I add them to as George All is not the right individual. I just don't understand how to stop this HUGE MESS!!
Basically, I've tried everything. Typically, I would walk away from this ancestral line as I'm tired of repeated work. But I have a delima with it all. Many descendants of Edward "Ned" Sizemore appear to have Indigenous North America in their DNA. The history and DNA proves they're in America before the Revolution, identified records imply they are fighting against people, basically for their land. They don't get recognition from the Revolutionary War or even helping to make America what it is today. These people need to be recognized and preserved for their true history and not a combining of history we need to work together, and I don't know how to do it.
Cindy
P.S. I'm sorry this is so long
Best Answers
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Hi Cindy,
I applaud you for wanting to take on the Sizemore puzzle. After looking at the obstacles anyone will face, I can relate to the medicine USHistorian is prescribing, e.g. "please don't add content without citing source or solid proofs",...... maybe her bedside manner in a spot or two could be better (smile).
random thoughts and ideas....
BROAD CHALLENGES
Given across platforms "Sizemore family" popularity and propagated confusion (Ancestry, Family Search, Wikitree, Findagrave) the challenge might take your journey from a typical 250 piece puzzle to one of those 3 dimensional 5,000 piece ones. (see challenges examples below)
SPECIFICS
As you state, there are several families with similar vitals and sources "not settled". That might be putting it lightly. As one profile manager at Wikitree notes, the family "is in need of significant work. (profile) seeks a researcher skilled in Native American research and DNA to, at a minimum, draft what IS known / documented about this man and family. As this profile currently stands (May 2021), it is a mix of unsubstantiated data and relationships and misc. quotes copied from other sites." IMO, ditto for Family Search "Sizemore" profiles.
I would think if you take on this puzzle, it requires leaving egos at the door and bring only sources to every fact and relationship entered.
It might also include disproving sourced (or not) popular family stories, , and debating/highlighting/giving guidance to typical "tripping points" made by other researchers .....working the "often confused with family" not just Edward B's and likely their kids.
You are right to change the profile paradigm for the families worked at Family Tree by including sources and documents uploaded as you've started to do. As one person several years back in the "discussions" rightly opined about...(I paraphrase)..."People are sharing information, but withholding their sources...".
TIPS TO minimize "Merge Happy Campers" for your couple GEORGE (Not ALL) and HART
Assuming you are on solid ground with your research....
1.Given what you've shared and the rapid changes, merges, if for your own sanity, leave BOTH a life sketch and NOTE stating something to the effect to the new profile for your George:
"RESEARCH CAUTION: DO NOT Merge this George Sizemore (add the NEW PID), husband of Annie Elizabeth Hart (ADD PID), with the often confused man with similar name and vitals George "All" Sizemore (ADD PID) who married Agnes Shephard (ADD PID). They are two different individuals."
-Move your sources back, etc.
Just as important, ADD as similar NOTE only to George "Alls" profile about do not confuse. Do not use the "Discussions" as I do not believe tablets or smartphones have visibility. NOTES have visibility.
2.Repeat same as 1 for both Edward B.'s
3.If you upload Jpegs, maybe watermark them with the "DO NOT CONFUSE WITH ....." phrase as images will get shared across platforms and potentially merged again or detached, at least you bring awareness to the line you are attempting to slowly nudge to an accurate life story from the propagated confusion as it might exist today.
4.For awhile, if birth date and death are really close (I haven't viewed), leave out on your new George PID while you work or put a range in while you work the profile to keep the computer from flagging as a duplicate. Other option for short term, until your profile is built, leave LAST name as "SIZEMOREDontMerge" if it is true your George is repeatedly merged.
5.If Findagraves are in error, attempt to send edits for fixes...ALOT of users incorrectly see bios as gospel.
THE OPPORTUNITY
I really believe a central point website whether a wikipedia page, wikitree profile or a Family Search single profile would be the type of central focusing point to handle this type of "often confused", "sources lacking" family that over time others can go to for available sources AND discussion of "tripping points", etc.
Hope some of this makes sense. again, I applaud your motivation. All the best in whatever journey you take....
Cheers~
CHALLENGES / EXAMPLES
-Findagrave profile bios are unsourced history and looks like dups, and maybe confused with your George, appear to have been merged
-Wikitree shows confusion and unsettled research
-Ancestry.com trees are all over the place and over 1k+ trees with all using same death date (see below),
-50+ watchers for George "All" profile, all types of experience levels and many have just as strong feelings as yours.
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Cindy
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
Just in passing ...
I do not know, if these will help/assist ...
As an aside ...
Just so that you are aware ...
Here are a couple of things ...
[ 1 ] 'FamilySearch' "Research Wiki"
Here is an Article, in the 'FamilySearch' "Research Wiki":
Guild of One-Name Studies
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Guild_of_One-Name_Studies
And ...
[ 2 ] "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch'
There is a "Collection", of "Guild of One-Name Studies", in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch':
https://www.familysearch.org/search/genealogies/submissions?f.collectionId=10000110
Good Luck.
I hope, that this may help/assist, somewhat.
Brett
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Answers
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Thank-you for reaching out to U S Historian? Looks like you are doing in-depth genealogy for your family, which is much appreciated. Here is a link to genealogist that help with in-depth genealogy: https://go.oncehub.com/ResearchStrategySession
If you cannot reach an agreement with U S Historian about changing your tree, please contact us again.
You can follow changes to individuals by clicking Follow on the Person's page:
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This is a very common situation. It originates in the old, obsolete practice of working in isolation on a single ancestry. Old habits die hard, and mistakes made decades ago are perpetuated by novice family historians.
To resolve these situations I go to work on the other families. It helps to build interest in a surname or one-name study. There is a membership organization devoted to such studies: Guild of One-Name Studies.
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Where do you find the Guild for One-Name Studies.
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Thanks to everyone for answering my question Issue With The Worlds Family Tree.
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Went and checked it out. Sizemore is not one of them. Probably should be though.😉
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Dontiknowyou, I have been working on the collateral lines as well as the FAN club. I've noticed most people really don't.
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You could lead a surname study for Sizemore. You could start small and do all Sizemore in Kentucky.
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Dontuknowyou-
I guess I’ve already been doing this. Just not sure where to put the data. Honestly, I did this in order to know I was dealing with the correct group. My Sizemores were NOT the Kentucky group of Sizemores.
ive created several different excel spreadsheets, written several reports, created time lines, etc.
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I guess I’ve already been doing this.
That's what I see.
Just not sure where to put the data.
99% of my surname study work goes into Family Tree, here. But many studies have TNG trees hosted by the Guild of One-Name Studies, WordPress web pages ditto. More and more also have DNA projects on AncestryDNA and FamilyTreeDNA to help living persons find generally where they belong. Old surnames often have multiple origins. One surname I work on originates mostly in England but there is also a many generations Greek family who collectively changed their surname in America. Not at Ellis Island, by the way; they did it during the naturalization legal process years later.
How many origins might Sizemore have?
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Etymologically, it looks like Sizemore probably has just one Old French origin:
Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames (Oxford University Press, 1997), s.n. Sizmore, Sizmur: see Sismore.
Sismore, Sissmore, Sizmore, Sizmur: Thomas Sysmore 1432, John Sysemore 1591. OFr sis mars 'six marks', compare Dismore.
Dismore, Dimmer: Robert Dimars 1220, Roger Dismars 1225. OFr dix mars 'ten marks'. Compare Alan de duabus marcis 1202, Robert Deumars 1280, Bartholomew Dewmars 1334, from deux mars 'two marks', which may have been absorbed by Dimmer.
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I am a couple of years late, but just wanted to thank you for posting the Sizemore comment!!! My mom's 1st cousin, Ralph Schuler, did a ton of research back in the 1960s/70s/80s in DC and with the ECA records, before the internet and before people just copied bad trees off Ancestry. He was always hesitant about putting things online. And as a result I tend to not put so much on myself any more. I have his paper records somewhere which he sent to my mom, and used to communicate with him quite often. She was from Chilhowie, VA, before she moved up here (PA).
I probably am one of the original people who posted this/our line online (back in old Rootsweb days) and I also stand by it. I also descend from Edward Old Ned via his son George Edward via his daughter Lydia, who married James Blevins.
Ralph and Ron Blevins (whom you may know and whose info of course you see everywhere online regarding Sizemores) did sooooooo much research - but as of today, the Google algorithms do not come up with their pages when you google Sizemore history, no matter what search engine you use. If people saw this information first when doing Sizemore research, it might actually help. Instead, they see pages about Tom, the late actor. Or George/Aggie. Maybe we could figure out a way to mess with the algorithms so that the only "All" that is called "All" is George/Aggie.
Don't get me started on the photos on Findagrave… I yelled at so many people on Ancestry for putting a photo of a NA woman up and calling it Aruna Hart that I don't think they listen to me now! LOL
Please let me know if I can ever help!
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