Variations in records.
Dear folk,
Perhaps you can solve an apparent mystery: I have located the birthplace of one Philip(us) Moll as being Stromberg, Rheinland-Pfalz. According to your records, he was baptised on the 25th. February 1833, his parents being Sebastian Moll and Barbara Kiefer. The parents had eight other children born between 1822 and 1841, all births registered at Stromberg.
Your records have been transcribed from the following source:- Deutschland, Rheinland, Bistums Trier, katholische Kirchenbücher 1704-1957, your ref: ark:/ 61903/1:1 D62T-962M:3 Nov.2020. Philippus Moll 25/2/1833 Stromberg, Bad Kreuznach, Preussen, Deutschland, Bistumsarchiv.
I have in my hand a copy of the page of the baptism register of the Catholic church at Stromberg, on which Philip appears but the names of both parents are omitted. The volume is:- Kirchenbuch KB3 Taufen(Baptisms) 1704-1957, held at the Bistumsarchiv Trier. I was assured by one of the archivists at Trier that there is but one record of baptisms.
Can this variation be accounted for? I look forward to your comments.
Richard Norris.
Best Answer
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@Richard483 - there is a difference between a record and what you may find on the FamilySearch collaborative tree.
The baptism of Philippus Moll is a record. What is visible on the familysearch.org website is an extract of that record. This is that extract https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D62T-962M
If you have found Philippus listed in the Family Tree, with the names of parents, that is not necessarily evidence of the names of his parents unless there are records attached in support of that parentage.
You mentioned that you found that record, showing Sebastian and Barbara as parents of Philippus, and also that you found a record for the marriage of Friedericus Moll and Catherine Heisser. I don't see either of those records in several searches. Did you perhaps find those references in the tree, rather than as a record?
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Answers
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The record of the baptism of Philippus Moll is an extract only - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D62T-962M The image of the record can be viewed by visiting a Family History Center or Affiliate Library. The extract does not list the names of parents.
Records have been indexed/extracted as finding aids. Those extracts may be incomplete or have errors due to problems deciphering, especially with older records.
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To add - I've visited my Affiliate Library today, and I have viewed the baptismal record of Philippus Moll.
The names of parents are, indeed, omitted. And the extract is a match, since it lists no parents.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your question, but I see no variation or conflict.
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Hello Aine,
I thank you for the rapid and thorough answers to my question, prompted by uncertainty concerning the value of extracts of records from the same source by two distinct organisations. Do I take it that Philip's parents are Sebastian and Barbara? I know that his father's name was/is Sebastian however I was gratified to discover from Family Search extracts that his mother was Barbara Kiefer. There is no conflict.
The copy of the baptism record is unusual in that, of the seven or eight entries on the page, there is no indication of the names of Philip's parents. Was this a mark of illegitimacy?
Sincerely,
Richard Norris.
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I cannot say the names of parents of Philip as they are not listed on the only record I have viewed. I was only trying to understand your query about a variation in the record, between what you have, from the Church, and what is online. There is no variation.
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Since Sebastian Moll and Barbara Kiefer had a daughter, Anna Maria, born 16 April 1833, Philip cannot be their child. Her baptism is listed on the page following the baptism of Philip.
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Both intriguing and baffling! From further investigation of your records that revealed the baptisms of eight Moll children, I had noticed that Philip was baptised on the 25/2/1833, born the previous day and that Anna Maria was baptised on the 21/4/1833, presumably born the previous day so a biological impossibility. Whose child was he then?
Later in life, in 1856, he became a recruit in the British German Legion, which body of men was raised to fight in the Crimean War. On his attestation paper, or recruitment record, he gives his father's name as Sebastian. He gives his occupation as that of tailor, following his father, or adoptive parent. He married a woman from Colchester where he was garrisoned, later that year and migrated and settled in south-east London. A mystery.
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His father could have been Sebastian, but his mother could not be Barbara Kiefer.
I checked baptisms in that register for 1830 to 1840, and Philip is the only one with no parents listed. Not just the only Moll, but the only child listed in that register with no parents, out of 309 records.
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@Richard483 If you will send me a private message with your email address, I will send you the records.
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Hello Aine Ni,
You are most kind. I have already ordered a copy of the original baptism record however more will indeed be merrier if that is the right word in these circumstances.
Raking over ashes, no matter how old, can have consequences!
I have to thank you for the time and trouble that you have, so far, taken in dealing with my query. Should we watch this space?
(Edited by moderator to remove personal information)
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Aine Ni,
I have got in touch with the Stromberg town council and the local Catholic church, St.Jakobus, to se if there are any descendants of Sebastian and Barbara living in the area. No reply, so far.
I have however come across in your records a Friedericus Moll who married a Catherine Heisser. They had at least four children. Could Friedericus be one of Sebastian and Barbara's children? It could, of course, be no more than coincidence.
Richard Norris.
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Email sent with all the baptisms I found in that parish and the one marriage I saw for that family.
FYI - Ní is not part of my given name.
You keep saying "Your records." These are not my records. I am a frequent user of the FamilySearch website, but I am not a member of staff or involved in the recordkeeping in any way.
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I understood you to be an agent of the Family Search organisation, hence the use, as it turns out, of the redundant possessive adjective. I am not familiar with Gaelic given names however I look forward to receiving the baptism records.
Richard Norris.
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Someone who is an "agent of the FamilySearch organization" would generally have the word "mod" next to the username.
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Really? Well, there's a thing! I would never have guessed. The records make very interesting reading. What to make of it all?
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Did you perhaps transpose names of father and son here? A Sebastian Moll and wife, Catherine Heiser, had a son Fredericus, among other children. Since those baptisms are in the same parish, I think it likely that this Sebastian is the son of Sebastian and Barbara Kiefer. The baptism of Sebastian is in that email I sent you - born 1824.
Children of Sebastian Moll and Catherine Heiser:
son George – b 1851 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D625-39N2
son Sebastian - b 1853 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D625-R4W2
son Fredericus - b 1856 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D62R-TQW2
daughter Amalia - b 1857 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D625-S32M
daughter Elisabeth – b 1859 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D625-DHMM
daughter Charlotte – b 1861 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D62R-JK6Z
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I have not worked on this family or this village but I have worked many Catholic families in this part of Germany. From the available information I would say it is reasonably safe to assume either the mother or the father of Philip Moll was a Moll born of that parish. So, you could build out the FamilySearch Family Tree for all Moll residents of the community and from there make a list of candidates.
After that, you may need to turn to DNA genealogy. If you want to go there, then you may also want to build here on Family Tree the most accurate and complete trees for all Moll families from Stromberg and all their descendants. This would help you leverage all available DNA results for others. Most DNA testing has been done in America, which is full of immigrant families, so your best bet would be to not exclude those who left Germany.
Good journey!
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I thank you both for the valuable advice. I have indeed found mention of Sebastian Moll and Catherine Heiser and their offspring. Perhaps further persistence and patience will produce results.
I hope that i do not re-open old wounds in the process!
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I hope that i do not re-open old wounds in the process!
That can happen, but I think more often well-done genealogy research helps to heal old wounds.
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