US, Missouri—County Marriages, 1806–1969 [Part P] [M9YL-7DK] To Index or Not To Index?

Melissa S Himes

This topic came up in my facebook indexing group and I am hoping the moderators can get an answer.

The above referenced batch M9YL-7DK is an "Inverted Index to Marriage Records". (in the event it is submitted, it is image 56 of the linked film.) The pop-up implies that it would not be indexed since it is a book index with only a name and a page number.

Attention

Some images to be indexed may contain only a name. Images that contain only a name should be indexed regardless of whether the image contains any other fields that are being indexed in the project. This rule does not apply to book indexes, where only a name and page number are to be indexed.

The Project Instructions say:

• Index any primary marriage record or associated document that has the name of a bride or a groom, even if the document does not contain a date. Documents to index include marriage licenses, indexes, marriage applications, and so forth.

I looked at the film to see if a primary marriage record could be found on page 371 since we would not index an index if the primary marriage record is being indexed. The film for this batch is nothing but indexes with only page numbers (nearly 363 images except for the ones that are the photographer notes or the covers.) Are these to be indexed?

https://www.familysearch.org/records/images/image-details?imageGroupNumbers=007513989&rmsId=TH-1971-36927-14713-10&imageIndex=55&singleView=true

Looking forward to hearing what to tell my fellow indexer. Thanks a bunch!

John Empoliti

Hi Melissa. Here’s my take on it, for your and the moderators’ consideration when they follow up on your question.

I’d say it qualifies to be indexed:

From the PI

• Index any primary marriage record or associated document that has the name of a bride or a groom, even if the document does not contain a date. Documents to index include marriage licenses, indexes, marriage applications, and so forth.

From the Banner:

Some images to be indexed may contain only a name. Images that contain only a name should be indexed regardless of whether the image contains any other fields that are being indexed in the project. This rule does not apply to book indexes, where only a name and page number are to be indexed.

To the PI qualifications, the batch image is a document associated with a marriage, with names of brides and grooms, and it is an index,

If considered a “book index,” to the Banner restriction, it still qualifies because it has names and page numbers.

So I think it qualifies on every level to be indexed

Melissa S Himes

Thanks, John. But, the important part of the banner is "This Rule DOES NOT apply to book indexes. The rule is images that contain only a name should be indexed regardless of whether the image contains any other fields indexed in the project. Then it says THIS rule does not apply to book indexes. (It can't be both ways in those two sentences.) My understanding has been that banners over-rule the project instructions and the field helps and are posted to better define the instructions.

John Empoliti

Hi Melissa. I interpret that language to mean the following:

“This preceding rule - index a name with no other field info (including page info) - applies EXCEPT when dealing with a book index.” In that latter case the rule that applies is: “a book index must have a name PLUS a page number in order to be indexable .”

So, having names AND page numbers, that batch image qualifies under either criterion.

Melissa S Himes

If that is what they mean, that is what they should say. It says the exact opposite.

I am going to tag a few mods since no one has responded yet. @AndLinda @annewandering @KlaRees @PiperTWilson @Mirevo (Those are the folks I can think of off the top of my head and who have been answering most recently. But, if someone else can get an official answer, by all means, I'll be grateful.)

BTW - here's a link to the help center article on "How do I index a record with indexes".

• "If an index includes only names and page numbers, it is usually not indexed because that information is included elsewhere in the project.

https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-index-records-with-indexes

John Empoliti

I don't see it that way (i.e., saying the opposite of my paraphrased version). I guess this is one of those (relatively rare) times when we disagree on the interpretation of a rule. The rule-makers will have the last say, and I will salute and move on. I hope they weigh in soon.

Susan Ann Mullen

I am being told that we are not to index these and that the marriage record will be found in the actual pages.

Good question!

edited: This has been escalated to a higher authority than I asked so please just hold any batch in this project you have till we get an answer for CJohns7's escalation.

John Empoliti

I see where you're coming from, Melissa. Thanks. I think you are correct.

First, As written with my interpretation capitalized:

"This rule does not apply to book indexes, where only a name and page number ARE to be indexed."

Your interpretation: This rule/exception does not override the usual/general rule not to index book indexes, which are documents containing only names and page numbers. Continue to follow the general rule, and do not index book indexes. Adding page numbers to the names makes the given document a book index.

I can see that interpretation. I now also believe that's what the author(s) meant. I think they worded it carelessly. For emphasis, I purposefully used more words than would be needed, but the authors could have done a much better job expressing their meaning with not many more words than the original.

CJohns7

Thank you for your question @Melissa S Himes and for all of the other answers and comments regarding this project.

Because all of the images in this project are book indexes, we have escalated this to see if it should be indexed, or if the project should be pulled. As @annewandering posted, the individual marriage records associated with these book indexes will be indexed in another project.

We will post here when we receive an answer.

Susan Ann Mullen

We are being told that this needs more review so please be patient and hold the batch if possible.

CJohns7

Thank you for your patience while this question was escalated. We appreciate your question, and have received an answer.

This batch and the other images in this project are to be indexed. The directions to not index book indexes with only a name and page number has been removed from the pop-up. We apologize for the confusion.

Please follow the directions in the Project Instructions under What to Index, bullet point 1. "Index any primary marriage record or associated document that has the name of a bride or a groom, even if the document does not contain a date. Documents to index include marriage licenses, indexes, marriage applications, and so forth."