Italian Birth Record
MSBF-LZX record 25
1815 birth record
father, mother and child have no last names according to Italian Indexing rules.
I've come across this several times in these records.
How would you index them? Follow the rules? Follow some of the rules? Follow none
of the rules?
Answers
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Since we can't see what you are seeing, it is extremely difficult to respond. Link to the batch?
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the batch # is MSBF-LZX and the record # is 25
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I have also come across Italian records where there is no surname written for the child, and the parents' given names are followed by the paternal/maternal grandfather's given name + surname (example: the father's name is written as Pietro di Francesco Rossi). I was wondering how to index the surname in such cases.
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@KamillaKovacs3, I am attaching a couple of articles which may help you know how to index the surname in these cases you are referring to. Thank you so much for your comment! I hope that this helps.
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Thank you, @AndLinda
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hi KamillaKovacs3,
the question you had is the same question I have. the answer is not in the indexing guide. the answer is always that you can't assume. if you don't assume you can't add a surname to the record. for that reason, my dilemma is, do I cheat a little, a lot, or do I go all out and include all three surnames! my response is that I cheat at least a little. i wish we could get a clear answer other than don't ever assume.
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The problem is that often the surname of the child is not recorded and there is no record of baptism. Do I leave the child's surname blank or assume it is the same as the father who is legally married to the mother? The guide does not address this problem.
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The field helps should address this situation. You can access the field helps by clicking on the purple question mark that appears when you click on a field. The Italian records seem to be very detailed regarding this situation. You definitely don't assume a surname from the others mentioned in the document UNLESS the field help says to do that.
For example, the Field Help Child's Surname for the project Italia (Tribunale), Ravenna—Stato Civile, 1807–1943 [Parte A]:
Do not assume a surname from the surnames of others mentioned in the document.
In the case of an unclaimed or abandoned child, type the surname that the civil authority gave the child.
Include all aliases, nicknames, or variant names that were given for a person, separating them with the word O (the word "or" in Italian).
If the name of a child was changed, such as in a belated acknowledgment of the child after the marriage of the parents or when a Hebrew child was baptized, type the original surname followed by the new surname, separating them with the word O.
If the surname was not recorded or was written as a variation of the word "unknown," press Ctrl+B to mark this field blank.
If after checking the field helps, if there is still a problem with the project, then you need to provide the batch code (the series of letters and numbers in brackets after the project title), and hold on to it until someone provides a great answer.
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I don't believe the field helps is clear. The child has no surname given on the document because the assumption is that it is the same as the father's who is legally married to the mother of the child. So, since we are not to assume, then logically the child's surname is left blank. Right?
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It is always best to share your batch to get the most definitive answer, @MCMann But, if the field help you are using is somewhat the same as what I posted above, then, the child's surname is left blank. Projects can have different field helps and instructions, even if they are from the same country. If the project you are working on has a similar field help for Child's Surname,
"Do not assume a surname from the surnames of others mentioned in the document."
then when no surname is recorded for the child, the field is left blank because we can't assume a surname from the father or mother, even though they appear to be legally married. But, if the child was abandoned, or their name was changed AFTER a marriage, or they were Hebrew, then one of the other instructions might apply.
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