help i cant read the Name still
Hey everyone, I'd really like your imput,
Im reviewing this batch and this person didnt fill in the full name because It was hard to read. There are lines running up and down the page. Im looking at it and sadly I cant tell what the name is either.
I inserted the batch link it provided to share the batch with you all. Its entry 26 and its mid way down on the right hand column of the roster.
What should I do? Should I list the name as 'Cl?n?e E' and then enter it? I didnt want to do that at first, because im the reviewer not an indexer and after I submit it, its set and done for good.
Can anyone else take a guess at what it says? And some advice on what to do with this batch now because of this issue would be great too.
Thanks so much :)
I agree with how you have indexed that name. There are fold marks on the page which causes distortion of this name. In looking at the other names that are involved with this fold distortion on this page you could also index it Cl?n?e E Or Cline E
Be assured that any person looking for Mr. Keller at that address can go in and look at the image and make their own decision on this name.
Hopefully that will help.
Thank you for helping Index. That helps so many find records about their ancestors.2
I agree with Colon you can index it as Cl?n?e E or Cline E, showing both names.0
My best guess Clyne - because of the angle in that previous letter but Cl?ne would be fine.0
I'm not sure if this is kosher, but since this project has lists on a monthly basis that contain almost identical lists, I find it helpful to check the previous and following month for the same name. This works especially well for trying to figure out if something is an e, c, or o. It is often more clean in the other records.0
John Empoliti ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi, @Tom123. No, is not OK to use Or to indicate two candidates for a name you’re trying to decipher.
Or is reserved for use with two alias names for a person (GN or SN) that you’re separately sure about. Below is a link on Alias Names from the General Indexing Guideline (GIG) section of the Project Instructions:
It you can’t decide whether a single character is an “o” a “c” or an “e” for example, then index that character as ? . If you’re unsure of two or more consecutive letters, then you should index that unreadable contiguous portion of the name as *. Below is a link on Unreadable Information also from the GIG:
When I looked at the image before, I was unable to see the reference images. Perhaps they are not available when the batch is shared. Often the person also has a service number associated to them. That would also tell you if it is the same person. Sorry I can't look at it for you. Thanks for being diligent.1
Here is a link that shows the information in the General Indexing guidelines and reaffirms that you can use Or if the given name or the surname can be another spelling. https://prod.familysearch.psdops.com/cmsa/idx/alias-names
Thank you for helping Index. That helps so many find records about their ancestors.0
John Empoliti ✭✭✭✭✭
I respectfully disagree with interpreting the Alias Names instruction to justify indexing the difficult-to-read (maybe impossible-to-read??) name in the above situation as:
Cl?n?e E or Cline E.
At the bottom of this comment is the complete Alias Names instruction from the General Indexing Guidelines. This instruction refers to a situation in which a document shows two or more readable names for the same person, such as Josef and Joseph (so GN = Josef Or Joseph), or the example given in the Alias Names instruction itself.
An immigrant might have Anglicised his name and written both versions on Naturalization Application.
I've seen WWII draft registration cards where the clerk perhaps misunderstood and wrote the registrant's name a certain way in the body of the form, and then the registrant signed it differently, e.g., John Smith and then John Smithe. Both variations appear on the document, and so both should be indexed with an Or between them. SN = Smith Or Smithe.
The Alias Names (AN) instructions' OR construction is NOT intended to show two or all the possible name variations (separated by OR) that might occur if you substituted all reasonable choices for obscured/ unreadable single letters or a sequence of letters in a name. The AN instruction is only concerned with alternate names for the same person already on the document and readable - but different - i.e., aliases.
The Unreadable Information instruction tells us to use "wild cards" ? and * to indicate uncertainty, not OR. So either you can with reasonable confidence say that the name is Cline E and index it as such, or you conclude that you cannot make out those letters, and so you index it as Cl?n?e E with the "wild cards" indicating your uncertainty - as the Unreadable Information instruction says to do. You don't get to do both.
Here is the full Alias Names Instruction from the General Indexing Guidelines:
If alias names were included on a document, or if an individual's name was listed with various spellings on the document, include all variants, separating each with the word Or. For example, if a name was written as "Georgios (George), George Broski, George Browzowski, or George Brzozowski," index the name fields as follows:
Given Name: Georgios Or George
Surname: Broski Or Browzowski Or Brzozowski0
thanks for that insight, if they do look up a mr keller, an ancestor that served in the military they would be able to decide it out for themselves, that makes alot of sense and ill use that logic if this comes up again.
i looked into the ones further in, and on image +4 i found an identical entry. Name, description, 808 sulpher Okla. Do you think its the right one? Its 3rd from top right side.
guess what? i looked at the second entry of this guy on image +4 and it looks like his name really could be clyne! What do you think?
Do you think its alright to enter a name after reviewing it using the ___ or ____ format?
Thank you all so much for your help, If you dont mind looking at image +4 and double checking my guess at "Clyne" one last time before I submit this I would really appreciate it. Im glad that the 4 of you indexers/reviewers banded together and have helped me answer this :) you guys are awesome.0
Only phone access right now - screen doesn't let me use reference images. But because of letter spacing and the angle in that previous letter I feel pretty good about Clyne from that image.0
It is alright to use or if there is more than one possible name.0