Australia, Victoria—Wills and Probate Records, 1880–1998. Index information found on NED images?

Bryce David Howell

I have found lots of comments and questions on the subject of the Australia Wills and Probate records but I have one question that I don't have a satisfactory answer to. When I have read the Indexing Instructions for this batch, I was under the impression that, in the case of records with images containing a continuation of a previous image (indicated by the start of a sentence on one image that is resumed on the next) we should not assume that the information on the second image is pertinent to the first image and that the second should be marked No Extractable Data (NED). Is this correct? Or is it permissible to use information on an image marked NED in terms of a previous image?

There have been some records that I've seen while reviewing that have been indexed using information from a subsequent image despite the record being a cover page and not actually containing the required information to fill in those fields. For a hypothetical example, if there were a cover page that read: "In the Will of John Smith, Late of Cherry Street; dated 8/12/54" the one indexing would say that the person was John Smith, Male, and the probate date was 1954, the probate plae being Cherry Street. The one thing that I noticed in the instructions that could be considered 'bad' in other projects is that if there is any language in the document that indicates a certain gender to index the gender in such case (e.g. a person could be marked "male" if there was a word such as "Mr." in the document).

Pleast reply for clarification and any advise that you may have.

Thanks,

Bryce

KLaRRees

• Let's take issue 1 - Is it permissible to use information on an image marked NED in terms of a previous image? According to the Project instructions Under What to Remember About this Project bullet point 9 it reads: Will and probate dates may be written at the start or end of the document, and documents may span many pages. Be sure to check adjacent images for the date before marking the date fields blank. We may use the other images to help with the date but it does not say we can use the information for other details needed. The first, second images would be indexed but not the third nor 4th, as per Project instructions. You seem to have a good understanding of this.
• Issue 2: Regarding the sex of the individual being indexed. The Field help states: Index the sex only if it was specifically recorded or you can tell what it was from relationship terms, such as "son" or "daughter," titles or terms, or other evidence in the language. In this batch that you have - the 2nd document which should be indexed states: My wife Emma - you can assume from that relationship that he is a husband as well as a father to his children. Therefore, he is male. If there was no mention of children or a wife then we would not be able to assume that he was male on the basis of his given name which is Mark. In this instance -you would mark the Sex field as Blank.

Does this answer your questions?

KLaRRees

We would love to assist you. Please provide the Batch code and title of the batch you are working on. This provides us with the actual information that we need to answer your question.

Bryce David Howell

M39B-2MM Thank you

Melissa S Himes

On Image 2, the will year is taken from image 3. Based on the example How To Index a Will, there is no place to index. Image 3 is then marked No, No Extractable Data (NED). The 4th image is not indexed because it does not have the name of a deceased person. All 4 entries must be deleted.

5, 6, and 7 are indexed. The date from image 8 is used on 7 and then image 8 is marked NED.

9 and 10 are indexed, 11 is NED because it is a continuation of Image 10. I

12 and 13 are indexed, 14 is NED.

15 and 16 are indexed, and 17 is NED. The indexer should have indexed Melbourne, Victoria as the place on image 16 (from the sworn statement on image 17).

19 is indexed, and the indexer should have marked M (the wife is named executrix) and the date of 1904 is taken from image 20.

In the hypothetical example, Cherry Street would not be indexed as the place since it is the residence of the deceased. The field help says: Do not index the residence place in this field.

I have never worked on a project where the document spans two or more images that we did not extract all available information from the document to complete the entry. In Part B of this project, there is an example where the date and place are extracted from the continuation page.

Ontymay

Hi Bryce,

I have been reviewing too and seen all manner of approaches to pretty much everything! Some are from people who have clearly not read the instructions but many are from issues that have been popping up in this forum.

I was under the impression that, in the case of records with images containing a continuation of a previous image (indicated by the start of a sentence on one image that is resumed on the next) we should not assume that the information on the second image is pertinent to the first image and that the second should be marked No Extractable Data (NED).

My understanding (confirmed by the answer from @KlaRees I believe) is that the reason for marking the continuation pages as NED is not because there is no information relevant to the index entry, but so that there is just one index for all of the pages that make up the document. The information from all the pages in the document is "collated" onto the one index entry. It's the same principle as when a will and codicil are in the same image.

@KlaRees says

@KlaReesWe may use the other images to help with the date but it does not say we can use the information for other details needed. 

While this is certainly true, but I wonder if it is an oversight in the instructions? I have to admit that, when reviewing, I have been accepting the place sworn for as well as the date on an affidavit when it appears on a continutation page of a document, based on the same logic as for the date.

For example in the batch shared, the images relating to Jane Elizabeth Keyston:

https://www.familysearch.org/indexing/batch/26002b52-5cec-42b5-9faa-ef7e85cb3661

Image 15 Cover for Bond - index this - there will be name, sex but no date or place, no death details

Image 16 Bond 1st page - index this - name and sex from this page, probate date and place from the continuation page on image 17, no death details

Image 17 NED

I do hope I have been doing it right!

Melissa S Himes

@KlaRees @Ontymay's link is to Bryce David's batch, the same one that I outline above and then she goes on to discuss further. The batch is not currently correct because many of the images have been marked Yes by the reviewer and need to be reverted to No, No Extractable Data.

Bryce David Howell

Thank you to everyone who helped answer my question. I think I have a better understanding of how to do this project. Again Thank you all for the advise and the input you have provided.

Melissa S Himes

You are most welcome, Bryce. Hopefully they will get the project instructions and examples cleaned up for Part B. I did notice in Part B they have a much better explanation of the records that span two images:

• Will and probate documents often continue from one page to another and from one image to the next. Index only the will or probate cover page and the page of the probate or will on which the name of the deceased first appears. Additional information found on subsequent images such as dates and places, should be recorded  in the entry where the record begins, then the image should be marked in Step 1: Images as No, No Extractable Data. There are many additional pages in this project.

The examples and the field help for the place are still wrong in Part B since they use the place of residence for the deceased in the field help and on the first page of the probate example, and the place of residence for the witness in the other.

"Late of" by definition means: having recently lived or worked in a place, a company, etc. So that is a RESIDENCE in the field help and two of the examples.