False Temple opportunities in the Recommended Task list
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Allan Hale said: The new procedure is to turn a "submitted to the temple" item green in one's temple list so that you may take it to the temple. However, it now it also show's up in the Recommended Tasks list on the home page. I maintain that this is misleading as now one can assume that the green light is that one can reserve it and then resubmit to the temple. I believe that there should be a filter applied here so that this assumption to being able to resubmit it to the temple cannot happen.
IF you are going to allow temple opportunities to show up in the Recommended Tasks list make them real opportunities NOT the ones already submitted which cannot be an "original" reservation opportunity. There are enough Real reservation opportunities available and we do not need to offer these faux opportunities.
IF you are going to allow temple opportunities to show up in the Recommended Tasks list make them real opportunities NOT the ones already submitted which cannot be an "original" reservation opportunity. There are enough Real reservation opportunities available and we do not need to offer these faux opportunities.
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Tom Huber said: Recent changes now allow any person to "grab and go" any green temple ordinance icon. Jim Greene said the following
We are no longer in a position where names submitted to the temple is more important than to have the ordinances performed. Therefore, while not changing the meaning we are changing the emphasis of the green temple. We need to think of it as "This ordinance is available for temple work to be performed." It does not mean "This ordinance is ready to be requested/reserved or submitted/shared with the temple." (This clarified statement was made by Jim Greene on June 17th.)
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Tom Huber said: Jim Greene's two major posts are in the https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea... discussion from June 12th, 2020, and the https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea... discussion from the weekend of June 13th-14th, 2020. The modified statement about the emphasis being changed appeared in the https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea... discussion on June 17th.0
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Allan Hale said: I understand that position. My argument is that it should not reappear on the home page "Recommended Tasks" column where it can be re-reserved. Put it in the "Temple" list where it is properly identified as being previously reserved and shared with the temple. Don't put up front where the newbies grasp at opportunities with no fore thought. The temptation to do good things is great and the front page is greenhorn heaven. Do but put it where there is more info.0
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Tom Huber said: There is no "false" temple opportunity involved. In all cases, the green icon represents the opportunity to perform the ordinance(s), whether they have been shared or not.
Reread Jim Greene's statementWe need to think of [the green icon] as "This ordinance is available for temple work to be performed." [The green icon] does not mean "This ordinance is ready to be requested/reserved or submitted/shared with the temple."
You can mark any of those tasks as "Ignore" and they will not reappear in your Recommended Tasks list.0 -
FamilySearch Moderator said: Any ordinance that shows up on the recommended task list means it is available to perform. If it came from the temple list it cannot be re-shared. The only option is to take it as a 90-day reservation.0
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Jeff Wiseman said: Allan,
This sounds a lot like an issue that was supposedly fixed 9 days ago. See:
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
I've added a note there to alert Steven Green who worked on that fix. This is likely something that he may be interested in.0 -
Steven Green said: From what I'm reading in Alan's message, he's not talking about a bug. I think he's saying he doesn't like seeing shared green temple opportunities on the recommended task list. If I'm misunderstanding, and there is a bug remaining, let me know.0
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Jeff Wiseman said: And I kind of read it like "he doesn't like seeing shared green temple opportunities on the recommended task list if he was the one that shared them with the temple". That WAS a bug (i.e., the one you guys just fixed).
Now if what he really meant was "he doesn't like seeing shared green temple opportunities on HIS recommended task list if somebody else had previously shared them with the temple". In that case, I know that the system was designed to work this way.
Allan, could you clarify this?0 -
Allan Hale said: Steve I do not want to see them on the front page where newbies pick up everything as Gospel and just do it. Valid green opportunities definitely but those that have been reserved and shared with the temple are not true green opportunities and it is confusing to the newbie who would sweep in, reserve and attempt to share with the temple. Can't do that in this case.This just adds complexity to a thing that is already complex. KISS works! Leave them in the Temple list where it shows who, how and when they shared it.0
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Allan Hale said: I just turned 81 and am in the "At Risk" community therefore I turn every thing that I find over to the temple. IF I will be able to go to the temple I will use the Ordinances Ready link and print my cards. I have been at this for 45+ years and am currently serving as a World Wide Support Missionary and handle these cases.
My problem is that the green icon from a shared with the temple ordinance appearing on the Home Page of FamilySearch Family Tree is false advertising. Because of Covid-19 none of us can go to the temple. All we can do it to find names and submit them to the temple. They stand out like sore thumbs where they will be lept upon like a vulture and then someone gets into a little pickle. I do not need the business. so put it into the Temple list where it is seen easier.0 -
Jeff Wiseman said: Ok, sorry Steven, this had nothing to do with the bug your team fixed already.
Allan, I believe that what you are describing is the currently intended behavior for the system. Someone from FS may address this but, but from my limited understanding of where they are headed with this, it is unlikely that this behavior will be changed.0 -
Tom Huber said: Allan, that recommended task list appears only for your relatives. They do not appear for the general public, only those that are related to the individuals.
I am another user, but I see user after user who depend upon the green temple icons, without consideration of its purpose -- that the ordinances are available to reserve (for 90 days if from the temple list) or two years with the ability to share with the temple list.
Green has always indicated that the ordinances are ready to be reserved and taken to the temple. Ordinances ready which was introduced with the rewrite of the temple software, always treated temple shared ordinances as green. Now that we can pull without having to contact the person who reserved and shared the ordinance, any ordinance, they are also now green.
Yes, you can use any method that works for doing descendancy research. I mention I use a printed list. When done, I use a yellow highlighter, indicating that I do not have to revisit that person again.
Now that all temple shared names are also green, which color has always meant that the ordinances are available to take to the temple, those who used the color probably should consider some other method to do their research, rather than rely on the available-for-ordinances icon. What that method is, is up to them.
Here is a suggestion and it does not cost money. The three fully certified family tree management programs (Ancestral Quest, Legacy, and Roots Magic) all have free versions.
Those versions allow you to download into a local database the people in FamilyTree that are related to you. The reporting capabilities will produce a descendancy list. The programs interface with Family Tree, so you can download the ordinance information, as well.
The paid versions provide additional flexibility and capabilities, but for the most part, they will work for most users.
I know that it is a pain to have to learn a new system. I chose Ancestral Quest when PAF was officially retired, because I was already familiar with the PAF program. AQ is the successor and has a lot of the same "look and feel" as the PAF program. Both are authored by the same person and AQ can work directly with PAF files, including updating them.
As to the changes that have and are being made to the temple portion of FamilySearch -- A council, led by Elder Bednar and with two more members of the Quorum of the Twelve on the same council, worked with the Temple Department and the Family History Department to develop the design for the new system. It was not done quickly, but involved much discussion and prayer, asking for directions from the Lord. Once decisions are made by the council on what is wanted, it is passed to the FamilySearch development teams for implementation.
There has been some discussion about using two shades of green, one to indicate that all the ordinances are coming from the temple list and the other to indicate that one or more ordinances are unreserved. That and a couple of related suggestions from the members of this forum, have been passed back to the council for consideration. I do not know what will come of the suggestions, but I do know that someone is listening.
The Blue (In process) icon was too close in color to the Blue hint icon. Someone suggested that a darker blue be used for the In process temple icon. This was quickly implemented within a few days of when the problem was reported in a discussion thread.
So there is hope for something that will help those who have used the green icon for their own purposes in the past. It will take more than just changing an icon color, so it may take a while to develop, test, and then put into production. But there are no promises that this will happen.0 -
Allan Hale said: Tom that is full of excellent points. I to am a fan of Ancestral Quest and it actually the ancestor of PAF. The author gave the church his code when the Church decided to convert from DOS to windows and it became PAF 4.0. I have been using it as you suggested for decades.
The fact that only relatives can see the green temple icon does not guarantee that they know what they are doing. The problem I see as a WWS Missionary is that they try to reserve it and turn in back over to the temple. Waste of computing code, time and space. The view on the front page does not indicate that it was previously shared and only green so we can actually perform the ordinance. I do know that it does show the shared info on the person's ordinance list where we can print it but does the newbie know or care? The learning curve is not that bad so after a few bumps and bruises it will be OK.
Glad to learn of the council with Elder Bednar. Gives me much more confidence in the changes. IF you do take a step backwards from the KISS point of view now will not be that bad.
Thank you again for the lesson!0
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