Translation of a Danish Death Record
I need help with the translation of this 1859 Danish death record for Jacob Larsen. I recognize the dates and age, but I need help with the 5th column. It appears it is giving the place of death and birth. I believe it is telling me the death place was in Høbjerg and well as the birth, but I am seeking confirmation. What are these danish words before and after Høbjerg?
Thanks!!
項留言
-
?Aftmd? [probably short for "aftægtsmand"] i Höbierg, f[ødt ibid [so above it must say "Valby"]
So was living in Høberg as an "aftægtsmand" and born in Valby..
It is probably not the more famous Valby around Copenhagen; but Valby in Valby Sogn, Holbo Herred, Frederiksborg Amt: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valby_Sogn_(Gribskov_Kommune)
0 -
This is helpful. I'm looking for a death record for a Jacob Larsen that was born in Høbjerg about 1775. If the Jacob Larsen in the above death record was born in Valby, then this is probably not a match.
It is good that I asked. Thanks!!!
0 -
When searching for a Jacob Larsen born around 1775 i Frederiksborg Amt I find three [one in Høbjerg, one in Valby and one in Tollerup].
Here is the one from Høbjerg:
Census 1787: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge Sogn, Høbierg Gaardfolk, , 89, FT-1787, C1711
Lars Rasmussen 53 Gift hosbond Bonde og Gaardbeboer (1ste ægteskab)
Ane Rasmusdatter 47 Gift Madmoder (1ste ægteskab)
Rasmus Larsen 27 Ugift Børn af 1ste ægteskab
Ane Larsdatter 22 Ugift Børn af 1ste ægteskab
Jeppe Larsen 13 Ugift Børn af 1ste ægteskab
Jacob Larsen 12 Ugift Børn af 1ste ægteskab
Johanne Larsdatter 6 Ugift Børn af 1ste ægteskab
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid670160
Lægdsrulle 1792: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 12 = Helsinge Sogn. [First lægdsrulle for that area]
Father: Lars Rasmussen.
No: 212. Rasmus. Høberg. 31 years. 65 tommer.
No 213: Jens. Høberg. 23 years. 62 1/4 tommer.
No 214: Jeppe. Høberg. 18 years.
No 215: Jacob. Høberg. 16 years.
Source (page 133, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17028,656250
Lægdsrulle 1793: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 12 = Helsinge Sogn.
Old number 215. New number: 185.
Jacob. 18 years. Høebjerg.
Source (page 112, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17037,657621
Lægdsrulle 1796: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 12 = Helsinge Sogn.
Old Number 185. New Number: 159.
Samme fader [= same father].
Jacob. Høeberg. 21 years. 63 tommer. Session 1799.
Source (page 137, top left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17050,659652
Lægdsrulle 1800: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 12 = Helsinge Sogn.
Old number 159. New number 133.
Jacob. Høebierg. 25 Years. 63 tommer. 4/1801 [Session?]
Source (page 134, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490982,661729
Lægdsrulle 1804: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 12 = Helsinge Sogn.
Old number 133. New number 111.
Samme fader [= same father].
Jakob. Høebierg. 28 years. 63 tommer.
Source (page 179, top left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490987,663120
Lægdsrulle 1806: Frederiksborg Amt. Lægd 41 = Helsinge Sogn [same place but under a new "Amt"]
Old number 111. New Number 94.
Father: Lars Rasmussen.
Name: Jakob [Larsen]. 31 years. 63 tommer.
Avlskarl hos Præsten i Græse.
Overdragen til sit ophold i 12. lægd. Session 1808.
Move 12-E-134
Source (page 212, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17074,665429
NB: So we have found this guy before !! [proof it is the person listed in the 1787 census]
For some reason the family are missing in the 1801 census [but that happens occasionally]...
0 -
So the new lægd 12 = Græse & Sigerslev where Jacob Larsen goes in 1808.
Then in 1809 he comes to Lægd 22 = Tjæreby Sogn. Strø Herred. Frederiksborg Amt.
F 195: Jacob.
Source (page 20 right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490825,666680
Lægdsrulle 1810: Frederiksborg Amt. Lægd 22 = Tjæreby Sogn.
Old Number F195. New Number 151.
Source (page 236, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17088,669582
Lægdsrulle 1813: Frederiksborg Amt. Lægd 22 = Tjæreby Sogn.
Old number 151. New Number 135.
Source (page 251, bottom right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17096,672414
Lægdsrulle 1816: Frederiksborg Amt. Lægd 22 = Tjæreby Sogn.
Old number 135.
Father: Lars Rasmussen.
Name: Jacob.
Moves 41-C-348. [to Helsinge in 1817)
Source (page 263, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17105,675698
Lægdsrulle 1817: Frederiksborg Amt. Lægd 41 = Helsinge Sogn.
C348: Jacob.
Source (page 61, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490832,677836
Lægdsrulle 1819: Frederiksborg. Amt. Lægd 41 = Helsinge Sogn.
Old Number C348. New Number 297. [crossed out because he is delated from the rolls]
Father: Lars Rasmussen.
Name: Jacob.
Place: [can't discern what it says]
Afsked session 1821. [so he is deleted from the lægdsruller because of age]
[Maybe it says to the right that he has "Fæste"]
Source (page 286, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17115,679750
So until 1821 he is alive and in Helsinge......
0 -
Thank you for finding all these military roll references. There are many more than I was aware of.
I believe this 1815 marriage record is for the Jacob Larsen of interest:
Image 107, 7th entry: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G94Q-RCW7?i=106&cc=2078555
The residence (Høbjerg) in Helsinge and age (40) are a match. For his spouse, Margrethe Olsdatter, I don't see that a residence is given, but a second name ?Rasmus Larsen?. I notice a second name given in this column for the other entries on this page. Who is this referencing? Can you help me with the translation of the 5th column?
0 -
Here is the link to the danish archive: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618489#390310,74250167
4-5th Column: Vielsesdagen: 25de September i kirken.
The 5th column: ?Vielsen? ?skeet? i kirken efter Tilladelse [ = the marriage happened in the church after permission] -> whatever is behind that information?
Could it be they got permission to marry in another parish than the bride's?
---------------------------------------
So the question is whether this is the Jacob Larsen in Høbjerg of census 1787 OR the Jacob Larsen we found in Valby in Census 1787.
Census 1787: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Valby, Valby Sogn og Byes Husfolk, , 21, FT-1787, C1710
Lars Jacobsen 43 Gift Mand hyre og betler
Inger Jensdatter 41 Gift hustru
Jacob Larsen 10 Børn af første Ægteskab
Johanne Marie Larsdatter 6 Børn af første Ægteskab
Jens Larsen 3 Børn af første Ægteskab
Margrethe Larsdatter 13 Børn af første Ægteskab
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Lægdsrulle 1792: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Father: Lars Jacobsen.
Nr 110: Jacob [Larsen]. Born: Neilinge [= Nejlinge] [that is like Høbjerg ALSO in Helsinge Sogn]. 13 years.
Nr 111: Jens. Born: Waldbye [= Valby]. 7 years.
Nr 112: Peder. Born: Waldbye. 1 year.
Source (page 140, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17028,656257
Lægdsrulle 1793: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 110. New number 84.
Jacob. Born Nejlinge. 14 years. Pace: Waldbye.
Source (page 118, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17037,657627
Lægdsrulle 1796: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 84. New Number 68.
Jacob. Born: Naylinge [= Nejlinge]. 18 years. 62 1/2 tommer. Landsoldat [17]99. Dronningens Liv Regiment [Compagnie] 3 [number] 54.
Moves to ?-E-57. [so the lægd is not specified unfortunately, but it happens in 1797].
Source (page 146, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17050,659661
NB: Anyways he is back for the next Lægdsrulle.
Lægdsrulle 1800: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 68. New number 65.
Jacob. Born: Neilinge. 22 years. 62 tommer. Dronningens Liv Regiment [17]99. 3 afd[eling] 54
Source (page 144, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490982,661739
Lægdsrulle 1804: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 65. New number 53.
Jacob. Born: Nejlinge. 25 years. 62 tommer. L[and] S[oldat] Dronningens Liv Regiment [17]99. 3 afd[eling] 64.
Over Complet ved ?...? ?...?
Afsked 1806 [so he is deleted from the rolls].
Source (page 190, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490987,663131
NB: So we can't follow him all the way to the marriage in 1815......
So unfortunately is is IMPOSSIBLE to tell which of the two Jacob Larsens is married in Helsinge in 1815; because it was tradition to marry in the Bride's parish!
BUT because there is a general difference in age between the two and "Jacob Larsen" is listed as 40 years old at the marriage in 1815, it is FAR MORE likely it is the Jacob Larsen from Høbjerg who is married with Margrethe Olsdatter.
0 -
Here is the link to the danish archive: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618489#390310,74250167
4-5th Column: Vielsesdagen: 25de September i kirken.
The 5th column: ?Vielsen? ?skeet? i kirken efter Tilladelse [ = the marriage happened in the church after permission] -> whatever is behind that information?
Could it be they got permission to marry in another parish than the bride's?
---------------------------------------
So the question is whether this is the Jacob Larsen in Høbjerg of census 1787 OR the Jacob Larsen we found in Valby in Census 1787.
Census 1787: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Valby, Valby Sogn og Byes Husfolk, , 21, FT-1787, C1710
Lars Jacobsen 43 Gift Mand hyre og betler
Inger Jensdatter 41 Gift hustru
Jacob Larsen 10 Børn af første Ægteskab
Johanne Marie Larsdatter 6 Børn af første Ægteskab
Jens Larsen 3 Børn af første Ægteskab
Margrethe Larsdatter 13 Børn af første Ægteskab
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Lægdsrulle 1792: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Father: Lars Jacobsen.
Nr 110: Jacob [Larsen]. Born: Neilinge [= Nejlinge] [that is like Høbjerg ALSO in Helsinge Sogn]. 13 years.
Nr 111: Jens. Born: Waldbye [= Valby]. 7 years.
Nr 112: Peder. Born: Waldbye. 1 year.
Source (page 140, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17028,656257
Lægdsrulle 1793: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 110. New number 84.
Jacob. Born Nejlinge. 14 years. Pace: Waldbye.
Source (page 118, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17037,657627
Lægdsrulle 1796: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 84. New Number 68.
Jacob. Born: Naylinge [= Nejlinge]. 18 years. 62 1/2 tommer. Landsoldat [17]99. Dronningens Liv Regiment [Compagnie] 3 [number] 54.
Moves to ?-E-57. [so the lægd is not specified unfortunately, but it happens in 1797].
Source (page 146, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17050,659661
NB: Anyways he is back for the next Lægdsrulle.
Lægdsrulle 1800: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 68. New number 65.
Jacob. Born: Neilinge. 22 years. 62 tommer. Dronningens Liv Regiment [17]99. 3 afd[eling] 54
Source (page 144, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490982,661739
Lægdsrulle 1804: Kronborg Amt. Lægd 13 = Valby Sogn.
Old number 65. New number 53.
Jacob. Born: Nejlinge. 25 years. 62 tommer. L[and] S[oldat] Dronningens Liv Regiment [17]99. 3 afd[eling] 64.
Over Complet ved ?...? ?...?
Afsked 1806 [so he is deleted from the rolls].
Source (page 190, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#490987,663131
NB: So we can't follow him all the way to the marriage in 1815......
So unfortunately is is IMPOSSIBLE to tell which of the two Jacob Larsens is married in Helsinge in 1815; because it was tradition to marry in the Bride's parish!
BUT because there is a general difference in age between the two and "Jacob Larsen" is listed as 40 years old at the marriage in 1815, it is FAR MORE likely it is the Jacob Larsen from Høbjerg who is married with Margrethe Olsdatter.
0 -
Just a thought:
"Pigen Margrete Olsdatter fra Rasmus Larsen, 33 Aar." [the girl, Margrethe Olsdatter from Ramus Larsen, 33 years]
Jacob Larsen (Høbjerg one) had an older brother Rasmus Larsen (ca. 15 years older) -> who (probably) took over their parents farm!
Census 1801: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge Sogn, Høebierg Bye, , 2den Familie, FT-1801, B3526
Rasmus Larsen 41 Gift Huusbonde Bonde og Gaardbeboer
Birthe Rasmusdatter 46 Gift Hans Kone
Anna Rasmusdatter 62 Enke(mand) Mandens Moder [1787 census mother was Ane Rasmusdatter]
Anders Hansen 27 Gift Tienestefolk
Birthe Rasmusdatter 20 Ugift Tienestefolk
Jens Hansen 5 - Huusbondens Søstersøn
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: Jacob Larsen's older brother and his mother Ane Rasmusdatter still alive.
So it COULD be that Margrethe Olsdatter worked as a servant girl for Jacob Larsen's older brother!!
0 -
Census 1834: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge Sogn, Høebjerg, Ammendrup Skoledistrict, et Huus, 167,
Jacob Larsen 59 Gift Parselist. af sin Jord
Magrethe Olesdatter 50 Gift hans Kone
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1840: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge, Høebjerg, et Huus, 149, FT-1840, C3222
Jacob Larsen 64 Gift Parcelist, lever af sin Jord
Magrethe Olsdatter 55 Gift hans Kone
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1845: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge, Høebjerg, et Huus, 68 F2, FT-1845, B3539
Jacob Larsen 71 Gift Undertagsmand her i Sognet [Helsinge sogn, Fborg amt]
Magrethe Olesdatter 61 Gift hans Kone Ramløse [Ramløse sogn, Fborg amt]
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: Yes, she was not a local, and that is possibly why they needed as special permission to get married in Helsinge Sogn.
Census 1850: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge, Helsinge, Høbjerg, 66, FT-1850, C6739
Jacob Larsen 76 Gift Undertagsmand Helsinge
Margrethe Olesdatter 66 Gift Hans Hustru Ramløse
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1855: Frederiksborg Amt. Holbo Herred. Helsinge Sogn. Høbjerg.
Jacob Larsen. 81 Aar. Gift. Født: "her i sognet". Undertagsmand.
Margrethe Oles datter. 71 Aar. Gift. Født: Ramløse. Hanskone.
Source (page 19): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=119302#119302,17420357
Census 1860: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge, Ammendrup Skoledistrikt, Høbjerg By, Et Hus, 72 - F2,
Margrethe Olsdatter 76 Enke Aftægtskone Ramløse Sogn, Frederiksborg Amt
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
So we know that this Jacob Larsen dies between 1855 and 1860.
So it was possibly a mistake from the priest about the Jacob Larsen, who died in 1859....It could very well be "your" Jacob Larsen, born in Høbjerg.
0 -
Retsbetjente amt, Frederiksborg, Kronborg Vestre Birk, Navneregister til skifteprotokol, (1853-1863):
Jacob Larsen af Høbjerg. Folio 570, 612.
Source (page 19, top right): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=133362&side=19
Retsbetjente: Frederiksborg Amt. Kronborg Vestre Birk. Skifteprotokol, (1853-1863):
Death notice of Jacob Larsen af Høbjerg, died the 27th [1859]
Source (original page 570 backside, top left): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=133360&side=137
&
Finished probates: Jacob Larsen af Høbjerg died 29. April 1859. [mistake for 27th april]
Source (original page 612 backside, mid left): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=133360&side=179
Census 1870: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge Sogn, Høbjerg, Hus, 206, FT-1870, E2393
Erland Nielsen 47 G Husfader Parcellist Lille Lyngby Sogn. Frederiksborg Amt
Sidse Marie Vilhelmsen 51 G Husmoder Huskone Skævinge Sogn. Frederiksborg Amt
Carl Erlandsen 12 U Barn Helsinge Sogn. Frederiksborg Amt
Ane Margrethe Erlandsen 9 U Barn Helsinge Sogn. Frederiksborg Amt
Margrethe Olsen 85 Enke Aftægtskone Undertagskone Ramløse Sogn. Frederiksborg Amt
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: So Olsdatter has become Olsen here.
Død: 10. Juni 1871 in Helsinge Sogn.
Navn: Margrethe Olsdatter.
Enke efter aftægtsmand Jacob Larsen i Høbjerg.
Alder: 86 Aar.
Source (page 1, mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618489#390318,74250536
Retsbetjente amt, Frederiksborg, Kronborg Vestre Birk, Skifteprotokol, (1871-1891):
Nr. 75/1871. (til folio 78).
Aar 1871 den 10. Juni anmeldte parcellist Erland Nielsen af Høbjerg, at Margrethe Olsdatter, enke efter aftægtsmand Jacob Larsen ibid, er afgaaet ved Døden idag, uden at hun efterladte sig noget af Værdi.
Anmelderen anmærkede, at den afdøde har efterladt sig et Testamente som er ?bevarende? hos gaardeier Jens Rasmussen i Høbjerg.
Source (original page 30, bottom left): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128686&side=17
&
Folio 78: Nr. 75/1871.
A lot of money stuff. (til folio 100)
Source (original page 78, left): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128686&side=41
&
Folio 100: Nr 75/1871.
More money stuff (til folio 176).-
Source (original page 100, left): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128686&side=52
&
Folio 176: Nr 75/1871. (til folio 177 og 179):
Source (original page 176 top left & original page 177, bottom right): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?side=90&bsid=128686&kb=Retsbetjente+amt%2C+Frederiksborg%2C+Kronborg+Vestre+Birk%2C+Skifteprotokol%2C+1871-1891
&
Folio 179. Nr 75/1871. (til folio 180 & 237):
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128686&side=91
&
Folio 180: (til folio 237):
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128686&side=92
&
Folio 237: (til folio 251):
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=9
&
Folio 251: Nr 75/1871. Finally we get to some inheritors. (til folio 326)
...Margrethe Olsdatters arvinge..
..hun var en Datter af husmand Ole Nielsen og hustru Ane i Skærød og at disse hendes forældre ikke har faaet andre Børn...
Ole Nielsen har havt en Broder - Anders Nielsen i Skærød, død, og hans efterlader sig 2 Børn.
Niels Andersen, husmand i Skærød, død, og har efterladt sig (a-b-c-d 4 children of Niels Andersen)
[child d is died and have furthermore 2 daughters]
Hans Andersen, var husmand i Tidsvilde, er død, og har efterladt sig (a-b-c-d children of Hans Andersen).
Source (original page 251, right): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=16
NB: So the inheritance goes to the lines of her father's [Ole Nielsen] brother's [Anders Nielsen] two sons [Niels Andersen & Hans Andersen!
So we can finally identify here!
Census 1787: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Ramløse Sogn, Skærød by, , 13, FT 1787, A4416
Ole Nielsen 36 gift Mand Husmand og Juulmand
Mette Svendsdatter 36 gift Hans kone [so a second wife to Ole]
Margrethe Olsdatter 3 ugift Deres datter i første ægteskab [from first marriage of Ole]
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Folio 326: 2 1/2 page more of information I don't have the time for right now!! (til folio 329)
Source (original page 326-328): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=54
It goes on and on.......
Folio 329 (til folio 340)
Source (bottom right): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=55
Folio 340 (til folio 355)
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=61
Folio 355 (til folio 363).
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=68
Folio 363 (til folio 368)
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=72
Folio 368 (til folio 373).
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=75
Folio 373 (til folio 381)
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=77
Folio 381-382 (til folio 398)
Testamente efter Margrethe Olsdatter d. 16. Marts 1866. [continues the whole next page]
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=81
Folio 398: [two times on the left page] (til folio 451).
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=90
Folio 451: [now it is actually important lol] (til folio 472)
....afdøde Jacob Larsen var en søn af Lars Rasmussen og hustru Ane Rasmusdatter [PROOF !!!]..
...samt foruden bemeldte Jørgen Larsen fik 5 Børn [their five children beside Jørgen Larsen]..
..Jeppe & Jens Larsen, ere døde..[they have actually forgotten Rasmus Larsen this time]
Johanne Larsen, gift med smed Søren Hansen i Høbjerg.
Inger Larsen, gift med husmand Hans Sørensen i Ramløse.
Ane Larsen. der har været gift 2 gange, først med gaardmand Jens Truelsen i Ammindrup [Ammendrup], og derefter med gaardmand Lars Madsen sammesteds.
Then follows the family lines of the siblings of Jørgen Larsen.....
Source (this part goes from 451-458): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=116
Folio. 472: (til folio 495)
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=127
Folio 495 (til folio 617).
Source: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=138
Folio 617: Finally it ends!
0 -
The ONLY reason we get all this tracing the whole family back is because their are no living direct heirs to Jacob Larsen & Margrethe Olsdatter, when she dies in 1871!
That is why we get the whole family listed from both their sibling and parents
0 -
Wonderful research, which verifies the vitals for Jacob and Margrethe. One thing that I noticed in the 1806 Military Levy Roll is that Jacob's brother Jeppe is employed by farmer Rasmus Larsen (possibly their older brother) which you suggested in relation to the 1815 marriage record of Jacob and Margrethe.
Military Levy Roll Source (page 212, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17074,665429
Marriage record source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618489#390310,74250167
A question regarding the death record for Jacob, could the "ibid" (for birthplace) be referencing the note about Jacob's residence "Höbierg" rather than the birth place "Valby" given in the death record for Rasmus Nielsen immediately above Jacob's death record?
Death record source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618489#390321,74250777
0 -
Yes it must be Høbjerg for both instances! [I had looked at so many lægdsruller, where data is continued from "the above"; but here "ibid "off course must be seen in context within the sentence]
Anyways you now have 100% proof that Lars Rasmussen and Ane Rasmusdatter was the parents of the Jacob Larsen, who marries Margrethe Olsdatter and they died in 1859 and 1871 respectively.
Very likely that Jeppe Larsen worked for his older brother Rasmus Larsen as the lægdsrulle states!
0 -
Thank you so much for you help. You have found so many sources that I was unaware of. I have much to learn about Military Levy Rolls and Probates.
Your help has been fantastic!
0 -
Hi Kevin.
Danish lægdsruller and skifter (probates) are NOT exactly for the beginners.
If you follow what I have been doing then it probably makes it a bit more clear how the systems work.
There are still information (almost always lots of abbreviations) in the Lægdsruller where I have no clue, what is meant.
With probates the tricky thing can be finding under which archives you have to look [can be Church; Noblemen's estates, Military, Navy, Amt, Birk or Herred archives).
As you can see the probates was in neither Frederiksborg Amt nor Holbo Herred; but under Kronborg Vestre Birk [that took me some time to figure out].
Cheers
Niels
0 -
Niels,
I have learn a lot going through this process with you. Thank you for your persistence. I'm curious why the probate for Margrethe Olsdatter is scattered over so many pages?
Kevin
0 -
The information is written in as it happens chronologically and so you have several probates active at the same time.
Why this was quite long: It is probably because a lot of people owed money (or she owned money - haven't checked it detailed) AND because it probably was quite hard for the authorities to trace the family lines. The authorities had to do genealogy and it seems that they couldn't locate (at one point; I don't know if they later succeeded) where Ole Nielsen's wife Ane's was from and her family relations? [Ane was Margrethe Olsdatter's mother].
So the probate start in 1871 and first ends in 1875 - it was a long process! Fortunately we have searchable databases - they had to talk with people around the area and request information by letter from priests to go check out their church books.
0 -
Kevin.
What is your family line then, through all these people?
Niels
0 -
At first thought I expected Margrethe's probate to be very short and simple given that she was elderly, widowed and lodging with another family. Your comments on why there is an extended probate make sense. I can see how probates can be very useful in identifying immediate and extended family relationships. Thank you for your help!
My family line is through Lars Rasmussen and Ane Rasmusdatter's daughter Inger Larsdaughter who is my 4th great grandmother. T
Best regards!
Kevin
0 -
Church book of Ramløse Sogn: [and that is a "beauty" go check lol]
Dominica 23. Post Trinitatis [14. November 1784] døbt huusmand Ole Nielsen og hustru Ane L:datter [Larsdatter?] i Schierød deres datter: Magrethe [Olsdatter]. [It helps when you know what it should say]
Source (page 16, 3rd column mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117742#516842,24455389
NB: Skærød is in Ramløse Sogn.
The probate agrees here that Ole Nielsen's wife was Ane Larsdatter and they couldn't find any origin or relations of her.
Source (original page 382, left mid): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=82
NB: One had to go through it detailed to see if they ever finds out (but it doesn't seem so).
0 -
Hi Niels,
FYI
The probate for Margrethe Olsdatter is a gold mine. As I reviewed all the relatives recorded for Jacob Larsen I found 13 that are not listed in my own family tree that I need to add. This does not include the relatives listed for Margrethe.
Thank you for searching through multiple records to find this!
Kevin
0 -
Hi Kevin.
It's quite rare in this time period, that you find this situation of a dying person who has no children, no living husband and no siblings at all, where the inheritance has to go through husbands siblings (and their descendants) and her own father's brother's two son's children (the mother Ane Larsdatter couldn't be traced, so it could have been many more people!).
It is by far the "best probate-find" I have done so far in my genealogical research!
That creates an enormous family tree that is the gold mine every genealogist hopes for 😀
Especially if we go back to 1600-1700's with fewer sources it can be the ONLY way to identify people......
So you have tons of descendents from the Larsen-siblings [even though I find it quite odd that Rasmus Larsen wasn't mentioned - maybe he and his wife also died without any living children?]
Did the probate-information corroborate what you had already found in your own line about Inger Larsdatter?
Good to know that all this work certainly wasn't wasted - you never know beforehand (and it certainly didn't expect it either)!
Cheers Niels
0 -
Niels,
Regarding the Inger Larsdatter line, the probate identified a grandson (Lars Sørensen) that I did not have in my family tree. So I need to research this further. There are 12 other siblings in the family tree. I don't know how we missed him. LOL!
There are in the probate many names from the Ane Larsdatter line that I don't show in my family tree. These will lead to other names, I am already finding out.
Kevin
0 -
I can just translate the important part about Margrethe Olsdatters mother "Ane Larsdatter".
"at Christen og Susanne Larsen vare børn af gaardmand i Aagerup Lars Svendsen og hustru Pedernille Madsdatter, samt der i huset hos arveladerindens [Margrethe Olsdatters] moder Ane Larsdatter, var en kone ved navn Boel, som Ane Larsdatter kaldte moder og er det fremdeles af et vidne forklaret, at vidnet har hørt Christen og Susanne Larsen omtale at de og Ane Larsdatter vare halvsøskende og Ane Larsdatter fremkommen med samme ytring, men at vidnet som efter sit Opgivende kjendte ovennævnte Pedernille Madsdatter personlig, kun har hørt hende omtale Christen og Susanne Larsen som sine børn, men ingenlunde at hun ogsaa Ane Larsdatter var hendes barn"...
Source (left mid): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=128688&side=82&height=1136
Translation:
"that Christen and Susanne Larsen were children of the farmer in Aagerup Lars Svendsen and his wife Pedernille Madsdatter, and that in the household of Margrethe Olsdatter's mother Ane Larsdatter, was a woman by the name Boel, that Ane Larsdatter called mother; and that a witness explained that the witness had heard Christen and Susanne Larsen mention that they and Ane Larsdatter were half-siblings and Ane Larsdatter herself mentioned the same; but that the witness, who after her own report had known above mentioned Pedernille Madsdatter personally, only had heard her mention Christen and Susanne Larsen as her children, but not that she also mentioned Ane Larsdatter as her child.."
Likely outcome: So with no proof in any church book (or at least more witnesses), they had to disregard these potential descendants in the inheritance!
We as genealogist have then to be on the lookout for a Boel being the mother of Ane Larsdatter, who (Ane) married Ole Nielsen and had 1 child (Margrethe Olsdatter) before she died.
Christen and Susanne Larsen could be possible half-siblings to Ane Larsdatter? OR it's all wrog.
First family: Lars Svendsen & Pedernille Madsdatter:
Children: Christen Larsen & Susanne Larsen.
Second Family:
Boel.
Child: Ane Larsdatter.
[For this to work Lars Svendsen and Boel had to have produced a child; maybe before Lars Svendsen married Pedernille Madsdatter]
0 -
We also learned from the top of the page that Susanne Larsen was married to gaardmand Hans Christensen i Taagerup.
Tågerup is in Ramløse Sogn.
Census 1801: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Ramløse Sogn, Huusfolk i Taagerup, , 119, FT-1801, A4417
Hans Christensen 48 gift Huusfader Har Jord er Skræder
Susanne LarsDatter 38 gift Hans Christensens Hustru Huusmoder
Johanne HansDatter 13 ugift Hans Christensens Datter
Lars Hansen 11 ugift Hans Christensens Søn
Kirsten HansDatter 8 ugift Hans Christensens Datter
Maren HansDatter 6 ugift Hans Christensens Datter
Christen Hansen 4 ugift Hans Christensens Søn
Pernille HansDatter 1 ugift Hans Christensens Datter
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Lars Svendsen & Pedernille (Pernille) Madsdatter was from Aagerup!
Census 1787: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Ramløse Sogn, Aagerup by, , 1, FT 1787, A4416
Erich Jensen 35 gift Husbond Bonde og gaardbeboer
Pernille Madsdatter 50 gift Madmoder [2. ægteskab]
Susanne Larsdatter 25 ugift Barn af Konens 1. ægteskab
Christen Larsen 14 ugift Barn af Konens 1. ægteskab
Jens Erichsen 7 ugift Barn af mandens 1. og konens 2. ægteskab
Lars Erichsen 5 ugift Barn af mandens 1. og konens 2. ægteskab
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1801: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Ramløse Sogn, Gaardfolk i Aagerup, , 99, FT-1801, A4417
Erich Jensen 50 gift Huusfader Selv Eier
Pernille MadsDatter 61 gift Erich Jensens Hustru Huusmoder
Jens Erichsen 21 ugift Erich Jensens Søn Tiener paa stedet
Lars Erichsen 18 ugift Erich Jensens Søn Tiener paa stedet
Lars Hansen 10 ugift Erich Jensens Stif Søn Kiører Plov
Maren PedersDatter 20 ugift Tieneste Pige Tiener paa stedet
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: So in 1787 Lars Svendsen has died.
Could be him here.....
Oeders Efterretninger 1771:
Mandens navn: Lars Svendsen Mandens erhverv: Bonde
Mandens alder: 66 Mandens civilstand: Gift
Mandens nr. ægteskab: 2 Mand død (ja/nej): Nej
Hustru død (ja(nej): Nej Hustrus alder: 32
Hustrus civilstand: Gift Hustrus nr. ægteskab: 1
Sogn: Ramløse Herred: Holbo
Amt: Frederiksborg Stednavn: 2
Indtastningsnr: C3868 Løbenr.: 72
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Christen Larsen should be a "husmand" in Laugø Huse [in Helsinge Sogn]:
Census 1801: Frederiksborg, Holbo, Helsinge Sogn, Laugøe Bye, , 29de Familie, FT-1801, B3526
Christen Larsen 27 Gift Mand Huusmand med Jord
Christine Rasmusdatter 41 Gift Hans Kone
Niels Christensen 2 - Deres Søn
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
0 -
Ramløse Sogn Kirkebog.
d. 4. Advent [20. December 1778] begraven Lars Svendsen, bonde i Aagerup. 70 Aar gammel.
Source (page 96, 1st column bottom): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117742#516842,24455469
NB: Haven't been able to locate any probate......yet.
The church book for Ramløse Sogn is only preserved from 1774 -> so no way to figure out who was his first wife before Pedernille/Pernille Madsdatter, but Christen Larsen appears!
Dom. 14. Post Trinitatis [4. September 1774] døbt Lars Svendsen, gaardmand i Aagerup og hustru deres drengebarn: Christen [Larsen].
Witnesses:
Hans Hansens kone ?T?.
Hans Hansen.
Mette Madsdatter [a possible sister to Pedernille/Pernille Madsdatter?].
Margrethe Olsdatter [to early for "our" Margrete Olsdatter]
Maren Larsdatter.
Source (page 4, 1st column mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117742#516842,24455377
0 -
Død: 26. Februar 1819 i Ramløse Sogn.
Navn: Susanne Larsdatter.
Undertægtskone i Taagerup.
Alder: 55 Aar.
Source (page 3, top): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618501#390409,74253778
Død: 7. Maj 1820 i Ramløse Sogn.
Navn: Pernille Madsdatter.
Undertægts gaardkone i Aagerup.
Alder: 82 Aar.
Kilde (page 3, nr 8 bottom): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618501#390409,74253778
0 -
Ramløse Sogn kirkebog:
D. 20. April 1779 trolovet Lars Svendsen enke [= Pedernille/Pernille Madsdatter] i Aagerup og Erich Jensen af Blistrup Sogn.
Forlovere:
Hans Madsen i Ramløse [a possible brother to Pedernille/Pernille Madsdatter].
Hans Christophersen af Thisvilde [= Tisvilde].
Source (page 76, 1st column, bottom): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117742#516842,24455449
0 -
Kronborg Amtstue
Register til Kronborg Amtstues fæstedesignationer (Fæsteprotokol V-IX)
Eric Jensen.
Aagerup. Gaard Nr. 1. Overtaget fra Lars Svendsen 2/3 1779. V 294 b
Source (page 80, left bottom): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17256510#211577,40000353
&
Kronborg Amtstues fæstedesignationer (1754-1796):
Erich Jensen, Land-Soldat. Fæste for gaard No. 1. ..Lars Svendsens enke..
Source (page 30, left bottom): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21610087#403202,74587924
Doesn't seem the "fæster" before 1754 are online, but Lars Svendsen would have gotten his fæste before that day as he is not in the register from after 1754....
0 -
Kronborg Amtstue
Register til Kronborg Amtstues skifteprotokol (1712-1825):
Lars Svensen. Gaardmand. Aagerup. Ramløse Sogn. 1779. Folio 592.
Source (1775-1790, page 23): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17256602#211713,40010027
Kronborg Amtsstue skifteprotokol (1775-1790):
Nr. 9: [on top is written "Pag 1- ?Li..? No. 2625"]
D. 7. September 1779....efter afgangne Lars Svendsen gaardmand i Aagerup..
..enke Pernille Madsdatter og den afdødes efterladte børn:
S..? [Svend?] Larsen, 14 aar.
Christen Larsen, 5 aar.
Susanne Larsdatter 15 aar.
Johanne Larsdatter, 8 aar.
Enkens nye mand Erich Jensen.
Værge for de umyndige børn: Svend Olsen i Schierød [Skærød] og Andreas ?Pedersen? i ?Benløsse? [Benløse]
Source (page 66, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22919061#488036,86893934
NB: No mention of children with any previous wife (or woman), so a "skifte" must have been conducted with the death of the former wife....[whose name we still don't know; whether it was a Boel or not]
0
