Translation
Phillip? I’m pretty sure this is for Phillip but ancestors says George
의견
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Hello @Bailey74,
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Here is the translation for the 1952 death record (no. 5).
Translation of record no. 5:
Number 5.
Bärstadt, on the 17th of July 1952.
The farmer Johann Friedrich Besier, Protestant, residing in Bärstadt, Ortsstraße 55, died on the 17th of July 1952 at 6:30 am in Bärstadt, Ortsstraße 55.
The deceased was born on 3 March 1902 in Bärstadt. (Civil Registration Office Bärstadt, no. 10/1952 [sic]). [Should probably be: no. 10/1902.]
Father: the farmer Philipp Matthäuß Besier.
Mother: Elisabeth Besier, née Künstler.
The deceased was married with Marie Katharine Wilhelmine Besier, née Besier.
Registered on the oral report of the son Karl Friedrich Besier.
The informant is known.
Certified to be in agreement with the "First Book" [Main Register]. Bärstadt, 17 July 1952. The Civil Registrar: [signature].
Read aloud, approved, and signed: Karl Friedrich Besier. The Civil Registrar: [signature].
Cause of death: rectal cancer.
Marriage of the deceased on 22 May 1921 in Bärstadt. (Civil Registration Office Bärstadt, no. 4/1921).
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Hello again @Bailey74,
Regarding record no 19: you are correct that this is the death record for Philipp, not Georg.
Translation of record no. 19:
Number 19.
Bärstadt, on the 29th of July 1947.
The farmer Philipp Friedrich Besier, Protestant, residing in Bärstadt, died on the 29th of July 1947 at 12:00 noon in Bärstadt.
The deceased was born on 19 February 1871 in Bärstadt. (Civil Registration Office [blank], no. [blank]).
Father: the farmer Georg Matthäus Besier.
Mother: Katharine Philippine, née Besier.
The deceased was married with Florine, née Schuch.
Registered on the written report of the local police authorities in Bärstadt.
Certified to be in agreement with the "First Book" [Main Register]. Bärstadt, 30 July 1947. The Civil Registrar: "Besier".
Read aloud, approved, and signed: [blank]. The Civil Registrar: "Besier".
Cause of death: suicide by hanging.
Marriage of the deceased on 5 March 1904 in Lauzenhausen. (Civil Registration Office [blank], no. [blank]).
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@Robert Seal i thought they were both for Phillip. Thank you so much. So is it normal for say two brothers to name their son both Karl Friedrich Besier. That was my great grandfathers name but his dads name was Phillip Mathäus Besier but this could be saying it’s Phillip Friedrich Besier
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You're welcome, @Bailey74.
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@Robert Seal_1 That was my great grandfathers name but his dads name was Phillip Mathäus Besier but this could be saying it’s Phillip Friedrich Besier. But they have different wives. I think I’m so confused now.
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https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/124454/translation#latest ancestory said this had Johanna’s Kausten as his mother and her husband as Phillip Mathäus besier as his dad, but maybe that’s why I’m confused.
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Hello Bailey,
I don't think it would be that unusual for two brothers to name their sons with the same name. The two sons would be first cousins.
I would suggest you make two simple family tree diagrams showing what you know about Philipp Matthäuß Besier and Philipp Friedrich Besier and include the parents, spouses, and children in the diagrams and this should help you sort out who is who in the Besier family.
Update to this message:
Philipp Matthäus Besier (born 1868) and Philipp Friedrich Besier (born 1871) are brothers and are the sons of Georg Matthäus Besier (1846-1934) and Katharine Philippine Besier.
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Hi Bailey,
The December 1926 marriage record for Karl Friedrich Besier and Marie Margarethe Höhn does not record the groom's parents or the bride's parents. thus you can't make assumptions about parentage based on this marriage record.
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Hello Bailey,
Regarding Death Record no. 5:
Here is the translation again:
Number 5.
Bärstadt, on the 17th of July 1952.
The farmer Johann Friedrich Besier, Protestant, residing in Bärstadt, Ortsstraße 55, died on the 17th of July 1952 at 6:30 am in Bärstadt, Ortsstraße 55.
The deceased was born on 3 March 1902 in Bärstadt. (Civil Registration Office Bärstadt, no. 10/1952 [sic]). [Should probably be: no. 10/1902.]
Father: the farmer Philipp Matthäuß Besier.
Mother: Elisabeth Besier, née Künstler.
The deceased was married with Marie Katharine Wilhelmine Besier, née Besier.
Registered on the oral report of the son Karl Friedrich Besier.
The informant is known.
Certified to be in agreement with the "First Book" [Main Register]. Bärstadt, 17 July 1952. The Civil Registrar: [signature].
Read aloud, approved, and signed: Karl Friedrich Besier. The Civil Registrar: [signature].
Cause of death: rectal cancer.
Marriage of the deceased on 22 May 1921 in Bärstadt. (Civil Registration Office Bärstadt, no. 4/1921).
Comments: The person who signed this death record of the farmer Johann Friedrich Besier is: "Karl Friedrich Besier".
Question: Do you know if Johann Friedrich Besier (1902-1952) had a son named Karl Friedrich Besier?
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Hello Bailey,
See if this helps to sort out who is who:
Georg Matthäus Besier (1846-1934) marries Katharine Philippine Besier, and begets:
Philipp Matthäus Besier (1868-1939), marries Elisabethe Künstler, and begets two sons:
Karl Friedrich Besier (1899-1969) and Johann Friedrich Besier (1902-1952).
Question: How does the above tie-in with what you know about this family?
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@Robert Seal_1 that is correct. I’m not sure I’d Phillip Friedrich had any children. I only know that my great grandfather was Karl Friedrich (1899-1969). Maybe he had a son named Karl Friedrich as well
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@Robert Seal_1 so is death record 5 saying Karl is his son? Now I’m not sure who his dad is.
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Hello @Bailey74,
Yes, that's how I interpret record no. 5:
The decedent is: Johann Friedrich Besier (1902-1952).
The informant reporting the death to the civil registrar is Johann Friedrich Besier's son named: Karl Friedrich Besier.
The decedent's parents are: Philipp Matthäuß Besier and Elisabethe Künstler.
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