Need advice on where to look next?
Comentarios
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I was thinking this is the Frantisek Krulish who married Annie Dusatko in this record But then I found his death.
Franz Albert has different birth years in different records. on his immigration record, it states 1847. In the 1880 census, it has 1851. Find-a-grave and your database have 1840.
I don't quite understand who you are referring to in your last email. "our Frantisek was born after that" refers to Franz Albert?
I don't think this is your direct ancestor but it could be the brother of Frantisek who married Annie Dusatko.
Betseylee
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Do you have the marriage of Frantiska and Katharina Sochurek? If not, where have you checked for it?
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee;
No. I searched Ancestry, Family Search and Prague Czech Archives for Kutná Hora and Vilémovice. I search from 1847- 1865. Since I'm missing some of their children, I thought I should err on the side of caution. Some women have a few miscarriages before they finally have a child that lives.
It would help if we knew when she was born. I searched in the same archives starting as early as 1939.
Means that she is from a different parish not in Kutná Hora. But I think we have the right archive.
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Hi Betseylee:
This Frank married Annie Dusatko. They had Anna who married Jaroslav Kaul. They had Frank Kaul who married Bozena (Bertha). They had my dad...Frank Kaul. 100% sure as I have documents to back that up.
I knew Jaroslav's Anna. She lived in a 5-floor walkway in the Bronx. We used to go visit her. That sad part is the one week her son didn't visit, she died. We lost all her photos and documents.
Grandpa knew little to nothing. He often confused his mother and mother-in-law... one was Agnes and the other Anna.
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I found another Krulis family on FamilySearch but don't know how they relate to you. They are from the same area. Start with Katharina Krulis G81M-38H. Still looking for some records. This is sad that it is so difficult. A person named Ing. Igor Holubec added Katherine's name that you could contact.
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee:
I messaged him. That got me to thinking... maybe we should search Neškaredice next.
I noticed he is using the Czech names, so he must be browsing the same archive. I asked him if had run across any of our characters. Hopefully he has.
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I have been searching Neškaredice. I found the town in the christening record of this Franz that died.
7 , image 58, Ovčáry, top born 16 Oct 1849, baptized 17 Oct 1849, House 8, infant:Frantissek, Catholic, male, legitimate, Father: Frantissek Kruless Chalupejk=peasant from Ovčár, son of Jozefa Krulisse Chalupejka from Nesskaredic (Neskaredice) Number 24 and his wife Rozarin Auzkowiz Grunty ___ Katholic
Mother: Maria daughter of Jana Frize Chaupnjka=peasant cottager Pecek N. 57 and Mother Anny Zarubowi from Sedlowa Paustroj? Malnssowskeho?
Detail View: Gazetteer of Austrian, Czech, Slovak and Slovenian Republic
No. 8370
Place Name: Neskaredice
Former Place Name: Neschkareditz
Judicial District: Hora Kutna
Crown Land: Böhmen
Name
Begin of Vital Statistics
Respective Archives
Competent Parish - Roman Catholic: Cirkvice 1679/1658/1679 Prag
I have checked Cirkvice 12 Index, 15, 10 (marriages, 14
In this series of records if you want to use the Index you have to figure out which book is the number of the book in the index. They appear on the front of the book. There are a ton of Krulis families there and looking there might help.
I have been merging the duplicates and adding sources in FamilySearch that they had in "Historical Records.
I am having a hard time finding the place Pecek for Maria Fryzy to find her christening and her parent's names. I want to see if Jana her father is really in house 57 like the record above.
I switched over to searching for the christening of Katharina Sochurek last night.
Let me know what you have been searching.
Betseylee
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Detail View: Gazetteer of Austrian, Czech, Slovak and Slovenian Republic
No.9226Place Name:PeckyFormer Place Name:PetschekPlace Name German:Place Name Hungarian:Place Name Slovak:Place Name Ukrainian:Judicial District:PodboranyCrown Land:Böhmen NameBegin of Vital StatisticsRespective ArchivesCompetent Parish - Roman Catholic:Pecky1831/1847/1866PragFormer Parish - Roman CatholicDobrichov1661/1661/1661Prag
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I have made a Krulish query on a Czech genealogy site. I think they can help me solve this. We are so close. They are a really helpful group. I have a lot of friends there. I consider them friends. I might be a bother to them. Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/czechgenealogy/posts/10162038316902119/?__cft__[0]=AZWipvIHSg8DOV8IPtbJL-ftXtWKWOf3pwdLkDBBF0XZmDpFqHyS6Ke7CfOQ12w7XUNBfeL1Jyk6LYGVxLXsFLey7oxHw9fKEa2fYe2ocUh0fizqroo-FkC5-7o3WddYPUgngn7JSHXiuX-JbZj04L3I&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee
I requested to join the group.
Thank you for sticking with it.
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Virginia just determine they are two different Franz's.
Then she found the marriage record for Frank and Apolonia: https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/5100/16?fbclid=IwAR3-gljE3OKiBTkL8uLNO2T_LPopoLV08MFpI-DhcbLbqfnt7ebkM1jvoHQ The K in Krulys is very hard to read.
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Frank's christening https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4451/92?fbclid=IwAR1NojOYzHAqI5xMyawn9aB_Q_ujIK1Em9HbpSHJ8pK6s6vzX0K9ONbHNLg
Many thanks to Virginia Babczak.
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She found Anna's christening and it showed the parents as Francisek Krulis and Apoleny Hovarkova : https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/7407/474?fbclid=IwAR1fXcJUZAj4osmyIQFjDR0Cqp7JxK_q8BSSia2lp96MvG6y5w90SpiRIzA
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Virginia found "the birth of Frantisek Krulis age 32 who married Apolena in 1837 - born 30 Oct 1805 at Pucher #16 (Pucher right next to Olsany, in Kluky parish). Note on birth record dated 4 Oct 1837 (right after Sep marriage) so maybe the correct Frantisek. Son of Jan Krulis familiant and Barbora daughter of Josef Novak of P?"
Betseylee
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Virginia: "Time for your happy dance!!!
I had one last thought - the two godparents for Frantisek & Katerina's first daughter Anna in 1864 (Dec) were from Policany (south outskirts of Kutna Hora). So I decided to look for a marriage in Policany and lo and behold I found it!!!! https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4493/20
17 May 1864 Policany #3 Groom: Frantisek Krulis 22 ? of Kutna Hora, son of Frantisek Krulis familiant of Umonin #26 and his wife Apolena Hovarek of Chvatliny #-
Bride: Katerina 21 (maybe sluzebin = servant) in ?Lo?canech?, legitimate daughter of Jan Suchanek of Trebesice? #27 and his wife Anna Hajek of Kluky #8. Witnesses Frantisek Walenta of rolnik Policany #3 and Frantisek ?Bartunek? of tailor of Policany #3"
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Virginia: "Here is the birth index that cover Trebesice for 1843-1868. 6th from the top. https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4599/37 Katerina was born and baptized at Trebesice #27 on 25 July 1843 to Jan Sochurek and Anna Hajek."
Betseylee
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https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/4595/125 birth of Katharina Souhurek
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@Martha Murray Are you seeing this new info? Maybe you are gone for the weekend camping or something. I am excited that it is solved.
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee
This was to have been posted yesterday, but computer glitch. Sorry!
I got one of migraines and have been up 24 hrs. On a scale of 1-10 it's 87. Hurts too much to sleep.
Wow! You two are cooking with gas as the southerners say. You make a great team.
Virginia is a gold mine of information. The diagram looks solid.
Great catch on the godparents! Success is in details like that.
This gives me a lot to add to my tree.
Please tell Virginia how grateful I am.
You're the best. I couldn't have done it without you.
A brick wall comes crashing down. SOLVED!
Side note: my other Czechs came from Tyniste. You will never guess where that's at... a place called Kutna Hora.
Betseylee you need to go rest that shoulder. And take it easy.
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Sorry to hear about your migraine. My shoulder is still killing me. Is there any chance when you are adding info that you could update FamilySearch too, please? It is really exciting that it is solved. I could taste how close we were to solving it.
Another Kutna Hora? How funny.
It would be nice if you left a comment on the post on Czech Genealogy thanking her. She spend a lot of time yesterday.
Betseylee
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Virginia found Found the birth of Alois 13 Jan 1871 at #19 bach, who dies in June 1871. https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/d/7431/43 Father Frantisek Krulis and mother Katerina Sochurek.
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee
I left a comment for Virginia. Thanks for reminding to do so.
I could add it to Family Search but not today. We have a Habib aka wall of dust coming thru our area. That will mess with the WIFI.
Plus, I need all my wits about me for the fight. I have yet to post anything without a troll calling me degrading names or undoing what I have done. I had one lady copy the record I posted and cursed me for using her record. She undid my post and reposted so she could get the credit. Talk about petty!
That is what I hate about a universal tree. That is why my Ancestry trees are private.
Thanks a million! I couldn't have done it without your help.
GO REST!!!!!!!!!
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You are very welcome. Virginia said she gave up three times because she wasn't finding anything. She and I never give up. There is always a way.
I seldom get anyone chastising me as I always put the sources. Primary sources trump any family stories. Don't worry about credit. The "latest changes" record who and when they changed items. Even when someone standardizes the places to what FS thinks they should be it changes the submitter.
There is a way that you can transfer the records through Ancestry, but I don't know how to do it. I use RootsMagic.
I want to add the other Francisek Krulis as we know so much. It will prevent problems for further researchers.
Betseylee
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If you have any trouble understanding the records, just let me know.
Betseylee
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Hi Betseylee:
SIGH!
I'm very disappointed in you. I saw what you did on Family Search.
After all that research. I didn't realize you still didn't get it. My bad!!
Graph 1 is the people I'm related to... Frank Kaul and Bozena (she went by Bertha or Birdie) Prochazka are my grandparents. I have documented every step of it.
Graph 2 is a 2nd family (Katharina had 13 children 4 survived past 1910).
DEEP SIGH!! Don't worry I won't change it. The Family Search tree is a fantasy tree full of mistakes. One more won't make or break it.
Your research was helpful, and I appreciate your help.
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You can change it. People make mistakes. Please change it
Betseylee
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Actually, I have a deep sigh for you too. I spent a lot of time trying to help you when I was not feeling well and on muscle relaxants. I do not feel your appreciation.
Betseylee
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